Starmer's stubbornness

From us, that’s how.

I know GSM. I don’t expect a land running with milk and honey. Public services are in such a mess, the CJS and prisons need investment and overhaul. Where to start? If Labour win I’ve more confidence there’s commitment to improve rather than neglect and destroy
How they’ll find the money and resources ??

Sadly, Iam, I don’t share your confidence.

Iam64

Led by which organisation? Your friends are in a similar dreadful situation to so many.
The basic new state pension is £221.30 per week.
Social care has been a national disgrace for many years. Johnson’s oven ready plan was simply a lie.

I know of several people who voted Tory on the basis of the Johnson lie about care fees.

I’m tempted to song the old
Labour theme tune GSM, things can only get better 🙏🏿

You ain’t seen nothin yet I think.

or how about paying buckets of taxes with little end user benefit ronib

Which is currently what we’ve got. Highest tax for a generation, yet public services i.e. ‘end user benefit’ decimated. The result of 14 years of Conservative government!

Oh yes, sorry, see you used the crucial word new.
I missed that.

I think £221.30 is the new state pension Iam.
I’m on the old ‘basic’ pension which is now about £191 - I think.

Wyllow3

I do take your point about mortgage rates in areas where housing is expensive Mollygo for average households, but how to address it?

No idea, Wyllow3, and I’m sure I have that lack of idea in common with every political party so far.
There used to be tax relief on mortgages MIRAS, but Gordon Brown abolished that as he saw it as a middle class perk.

I’m interested in any increased tax on second homes, which might mean people like some of my family members could actually find a first home.
I presume second home owners are among those who would be happy to pay more tax to support the less well off, but I suspect that might come under the heading of politics of envy.

Led by which organisation? Your friends are in a similar dreadful situation to so many.
The basic new state pension is £221.30 per week.
Social care has been a national disgrace for many years. Johnson’s oven ready plan was simply a lie.

Iam64 my friends and I were led to believe that once savings dropped below £23k that support would be set up to help with care fees. Not so. Income is assessed and the cost of care is deducted from monthly income. So to be specific, my elderly frail fractured friend is currently left with just over £200 a week for living expenses and a very inadequate number of hours for care.

ronib

Wyllow3 I thought that all could get help from SSD too but in reality it’s a broken system and is not serving those most in need who apparently are wealthy but in reality are not.

I’m surprised that you haven’t been aware that local authority social services were gradually devastated by austerity. L.A’s are scarcely able to meet their statutory duties as a result.

As for ‘not serving those most in need who are apparently wealthy but in reality are not’. What does this mean?

Wyllow3 I thought that all could get help from SSD too but in reality it’s a broken system and is not serving those most in need who apparently are wealthy but in reality are not.

I do take your point about mortgage rates in areas where housing is expensive Mollygo for average households, but how to address it?

ronib

Iam64 or how about paying buckets of taxes with little end user benefit? So self funding education and healthcare thus freeing up school places and hospital appointments?
I am surprised to find out how the apparently rich elderly in need are assessed too. Zero support from Social Services.

All can get help from SSD tho resources slim but costs of care are assessed according to income and savings and have been for a very long time.
Attendance allowance isn't means assessed.

Iam64

This election has brought out the divide between those of us willing to pay more tax to benefit society and those who arent

It’s also highlighted those who haven’t the wherewithal to pay any more in tax. They aren’t just the visible poor, but those who are earning what should be a decent wage that is swallowed up in mortgages, especially living down south, childcare fees in order to earn that wage, university fees, etc.

Not the very rich, or even the moderately rich, but those whose circumstances look good on paper, but don’t translate into good in real life.
Those for whom the mortgage rate and fuel price increases pushed them almost to breaking point, but aren’t poor in the accepted sense of the word.

It’s great that some feel able to pay more tax, especially those comfortably off in retirement with no mortgage or other high output payments.
However, is it right to judge people whose circumstances we know nothing about, for being unwilling to see even more of their money disappear, especially without knowing that it will be used for the benefit of those more in need and not just swallowed up?

Iam64 or how about paying buckets of taxes with little end user benefit? So self funding education and healthcare thus freeing up school places and hospital appointments?
I am surprised to find out how the apparently rich elderly in need are assessed too. Zero support from Social Services.

This election has brought out the divide between those of us willing to pay more tax to benefit society and those who arent

You said it yourself MayBee, you were working part time. If you had been working full time perhaps you could have afforded fees. I don’t live in a different economic universe - as a single parent working full time but with little or no financial support from my ex I couldn’t afford to send my son to an independent school.

Yes Lizzy.

Reading this thread (and others like it) brings into sharp focus, for me, just how differently some of us view society.

For some, being asked to pay a little more tax to contribute towards the greater good, is viewed as being ‘punished’; whilst others are willing to contribute, for the good of all.

I suppose, it comes down to a fundamentally different way in how we view our fellow citizens and, from that, the sort of country we want to inhabit.

Iam64

True, not all children fill their potential at schools. Most parents do the best they can for their children - as Maddyone’s son and Gloriannie did

Thank you Iam.
I think most parents do the best they can in whatever circumstances they find themselves.

Glorrianny I appreciate that you have answered my query, and described your own circumstances, which you say you don’t often do. It was necessary for me to describe my son’s situation in order to say how he has straddled both systems in order to do the best for his child. We are all concerned about how this little person will get on at senior school, but he will have to adapt, as all children do.
I also understand ADHD. We have members of my family who have this condition, including one of our grandchildren, not the one I was talking about in the earlier posts. This child is also in an independent school, but in another country. The small class sizes are beneficial for him. The school are aware and supportive. If he returns to England, an independent school will be unaffordable and he will attend a state senior school. His parents are engaged in a difficult divorce situation I’m afraid.

Germanshepherdsmum

I don’t idolise the Conservative Party MayBee and never have - if I did I would probably be a member. But I very much dislike what Labour stand for. I voted for Blair. The Labour Party today is once again a party which will do all it can to punish those it perceives to have wealth. I would not call working parents scrimping and saving to give their child the best education they can, but they, and their children, will be the victims of this policy - for those with real wealth it will be water off a duck’s back.

We were working parents; I worked part time and my husband was a top engineer in his field. But no matter how much we scrimped and saved we would not have had enough money to privately educate our children. So I don’t buy into the idea that if working parents just do without a few of life’s luxuries they can send their children to private school. I think you inhabit a different economic universe to me. But both me and my kids are prepared to pay more in tax if that money provides a good education for every child in this country.