Tories - rotten to the end

I cannot see that 'supporting' Hamas (thought it was negotiation, actually) is worse than supporting Israel. And in any case, open policies that we can choose or reject are very different from a bunch of people who just cannot be trusted in any way - in my opinion.

Whatever party is in power, they all seem to think they can get away with lining their own pockets legally or illegally. I've seen many different governments and there's been corruption in all of them. I've grown cynical of all policians I'm afraid.

georgia101

Whatever party is in power, they all seem to think they can get away with lining their own pockets legally or illegally. I've seen many different governments and there's been corruption in all of them. I've grown cynical of all policians I'm afraid.

But you must admit we’ve never had corruption on the scale that it has been recently?

I wonder what we will be saying about Labour in five years.

Nancat

I wonder what we will be saying about Labour in five years.

This is not an argument. We could also say that in ten years what would we be saying about Reform, or any other government?

This Tory administration has been the most corrupt I have ever known and will become the yardstick for any subsequent administration.

No argument, just a question out of curiosity. Personally I have absolutely NO TRUST in any of them.

Nancat

No argument, just a question out of curiosity. Personally I have absolutely NO TRUST in any of them.

And that perfectly understandable feeling is due to Johnson and his lies. That man has done a great deal of damage to politics and politicians.

Nancat

No argument, just a question out of curiosity. Personally I have absolutely NO TRUST in any of them.

Out of interest when did you lose that trust? Has it been in the past 14 years or does it go beyond that? I keep seeing people being interviewed on tv saying they have been let down by governments but they only seem old enough to have known a Conservative government.

I don’t know about Nancat, but I haven’t trusted politicians to keep their word for longer than that.
We’ll never know how any other government would have managed Covid. I have no faith that there would have been less corruption under Labour.
Do I think Conservatives have let us down?
Absolutely, but then we were let down by the last Labour Government under Gordon Brown, with the removal of MIRAS and the robbing of pensions. We felt the impact of losing MIRAS then and now we’re feeling the impact of the pensions let down.

I find it baffling that this scandal, which involves civil servants in government, police protection officers, possibly ministers, should cast any negative light on Labour, or indeed any of the other opposition parties. Posters say that voters won't trust any politicians because of this, & sadly there may be a grain of truth in this, but if this was an outgoing labour government facing this scandal, would people so easily give up & say "the conservatives are just as bad?" I can't imagine that somehow.

I find it baffling that this scandal, which involves civil servants
As far as I understand No, it does not involve civil servants.

As no other UK government has ever had more corruption proved to have taken place than the Tories since 2019, there’s a very high likelihood that Labour would have been less corrupt, by the law of averages if for no other reason.
There is no comparison between this shower and any previous government of the UK, regardless of political persuasion, and how people can defend them completely beats me. All the generations below us are able to see them for what they are, which makes it more embarrassing - I don’t want to be thought guilty by association just because of my age.

Sorry, Casdon, you’re already thought to be guilty because of your age. You must have voted Tory, Leave, and in Scotland, No. Or at least that’s what some young people think. My late DMIL, who died at 89, would be spinning in her grave at the idea that she would have voted in any of those ways!

MayBee70

georgia101

Whatever party is in power, they all seem to think they can get away with lining their own pockets legally or illegally. I've seen many different governments and there's been corruption in all of them. I've grown cynical of all policians I'm afraid.

But you must admit we’ve never had corruption on the scale that it has been recently?

I’m sure we have but that was in the days of social media. Plus the fact that the press were gagged.
Lord Boothby and the Kray twins?
We weren’t told a smidgin of what really happened in the Profumo affair, like who murdered Steven Ward because he certainly didn’t commit suicide.

Harold Wilson didn’t cover himself in glory Re the homosexual relationship between a Tory peer ( lord Boothby and the Kray twins.

thekraytwins.fandom.com/wiki/The_Boothby_Affair

Blimey. How far are we going to go back. Any scandal about William Pitt the Younger that I need to know about .

I’d rather look forward, but to improve the future, we have to learn from the past.

For nanna, and others, re the supposed low IQ of MPs. For many decades, Govts of both badges have given the strong impression that they need help to put their shoes on the correct feet.

BUT -- there are lots of 'base level' constituency MPs, representing their area, who do a great job helping their people. Something seems to happen to them though, if they get made a Minister, or a Shadow, then they have to sign up to putting Party above all else, and learning psychobabble.

For those referring to "degrees" as being a sign of learning, and intelligence, I worked in a long IT career with lots of people who had degrees, here, in Europe and the States.

I came to realise that a subset of them had barely the commonsense to boil an egg.

For any thinking that Labour will be less corrupt than the blundering Tories, maybe guess again. Think back to the Bliar Govt that got swept into power, and his special friend Peter Mandelson, who got suspended for corruption so many times we lost count. He's now a Lord (you could not make it up!) and I read the other week has been advising Starmer.

I'm not sure what checks if any get made for such politically inspired honours? Major & Heseltine almost bankrupted the country, got made a Sir & Lord respectively, 500 yrs ago they'd have been marched off to the Tower for an axe-tasting session! Mandelson was on the naughty step so often he wore it out, now he's a Lord.

Cyril Smith- not corruption, but….

Cyril Smith was a liberal. Corrupt in a different way

petra

MayBee70

georgia101

Whatever party is in power, they all seem to think they can get away with lining their own pockets legally or illegally. I've seen many different governments and there's been corruption in all of them. I've grown cynical of all policians I'm afraid.

But you must admit we’ve never had corruption on the scale that it has been recently?

I’m sure we have but that was in the days of social media. Plus the fact that the press were gagged.
Lord Boothby and the Kray twins?
We weren’t told a smidgin of what really happened in the Profumo affair, like who murdered Steven Ward because he certainly didn’t commit suicide.

Not all parties are bad, it just takes a few to bring a party down, and a scheming double dealer in the mix. Michael Gough, Dominic Cumming, Sue Grey and others are not in the same league as other Conservatives who work hard for their party and constituents. Starmer and Raynor, are not representative of a true Labour voter, poor examples, many more in the party are true to it and work hard. The hád their own party gate, but of course that's different.
I thinks it's a given we will get Labour in, interest rates now low as they should be, will rise as will borrowing, inheritance tax will go, ensuring that those who have accrued a home will gift it one way or another to the government, that's if there's anything left after £1600 a week on care, who on earth can afford that,

Didn’t the Conservatives promise to put some sort of cap on the amount of money from the sale of your house that would go towards nursing home fees but then didn’t implement it? I’m sure that I was tempted to vote for them because of it.

MayBee70

Blimey. How far are we going to go back. Any scandal about William Pitt the Younger that I need to know about .

I was pointing out that it was ever thus.

petra

MayBee70

Blimey. How far are we going to go back. Any scandal about William Pitt the Younger that I need to know about .

I was pointing out that it was ever thus.

It wasn’t though. There have been incidents of corruption in virtually every period of government, some very serious, some less so. However there has never before been a government where there were multiple incidents of different natures, particularly during one five year period. It really is unprecedented, and we should all own up to it.