Is this country morally bankrupt?

Cleverley was asked whether Palestinian children would be permitted to come here. Obviously, this could only happen at such time there was a means by which they could escape Gaza. He could have stated that proviso and then given the answer.

You really don’t understand do you Glorianny?

The positions are so different, what is not to understand?

If it is so easy, why don't some of you hire a large vehicle, drive to Gaza and bring children back here? You could take supplies in at the same time.

This is what a friend's SIL has done in Ukraine. He drove a large vehicle over to Ukraine full of supplies and brought out traumatised women, children, some orphaned, and took them to Poland.
He plans to go again.

I don't understand Granny Gravy 13' "apples & pears " comment. Ukrainian children v Gazan children, why state they are different? they are - different nationalities - but they AREN'T more or less deserving as small human beings, and in this context about taking orphans, its hard to interpret that comment as anything other than valueing Ukrainian children above those from Gaza.

Germanshepherdsmum

Glorianny

Someone's opinion does not have to be a policy. Perhaps that's what is wrong with politics and politicians. Undoubtedly the moral answer must be "Yes, children should come here.". If there are then to be qualifications they can be added. The immorality is in refusing to answer, because it means the politician has no moral perspective on what should happen. This is very dangerous ground. Morality and humanity are the basis of our civilisation.

Come on, you would be the first to criticise his answer (as you have) and twist his words. As you have.

I'd actually have more respect for him if he had said a straight off "No". Do you disagree that the moral answer is "yes"?

Delila

Children should not be left orphaned in the crumbling ruins of a war-torn country. The world, this country, can do better.

Which country would you take them from, Yemen, Sudan, or is it just Gaza.

Glorianny

Someone's opinion does not have to be a policy. Perhaps that's what is wrong with politics and politicians. Undoubtedly the moral answer must be "Yes, children should come here.". If there are then to be qualifications they can be added. The immorality is in refusing to answer, because it means the politician has no moral perspective on what should happen. This is very dangerous ground. Morality and humanity are the basis of our civilisation.

Come on, you would be the first to criticise his answer (as you have) and twist his words. As you have.

Mollygo

It’s too complex to do off the cuff, no matter how much we care.

Define children.
Where would the age cut off point be for acceptance as a “child”?
The age at which they can vote?
The age at which they have the right to take drugs?

Define ‘join with their families’.
Which families?
Would these families have to agree to take responsibility for the children until they’re old enough to leave home?

What about those children who do not have families over here, or do not have families willing to take them in, or whose families over here are already suffering from child poverty and would find it difficult to add to their already stretched circumstances.

What would you do with them?

How does shouting that these are children, or implying that only you care doesn’t help.
Maybe you are genuinely volunteering to take in these orphans yourself.

I think most of us supporting have them here, IF, they have family.

If they do not, then sadly we cannot accommodate them.

If they do have family here and are under 18 years old, of course some way should be found to have them here.

Someone's opinion does not have to be a policy. Perhaps that's what is wrong with politics and politicians. Undoubtedly the moral answer must be "Yes, children should come here.". If there are then to be qualifications they can be added. The immorality is in refusing to answer, because it means the politician has no moral perspective on what should happen. This is very dangerous ground. Morality and humanity are the basis of our civilisation.

The question asks whether the U.K. is a morally bankrupt country.

I think not.

I think not either and we are amongst the most tolerant and generous on earth.

The point is ' James Cleverley is in no position to answer that question at the moment, something he knows only too well. Making such a promise would be just empty words and he would be criticised for making meaningless promises.

Is the U.K. morally bankrupt ?

No but some people in the U.K. may be, and some of them might be MP’s.

This question was asked by the OP due to James Cleverly not giving an answer to.

should orphaned children in Gaza be allow to come to the U.K

A question he was not in a position to answer seven days before the GE.

Of course you know I will disagree with that.

Why ignore the statement in the OP and just answer the title?

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

There are 11000 orphaned children in Gaza. So if they were all lucky enough to have a family living elsewhere in the world their little lives would have some hope and happiness for the future.

Spread around the world this is such a tiny number. Even if incredibly all their relatives lived in the U.K. - those children would only represent about a weeks worth of asylum seekers coming to the U.K. on boats, with which this government appears entirely incapable of dealing. As it is their numbers would not represent one days worth of asylum seekers.

And as they are coming to live with an established family they will not need intervention by government agencies etc.

How do you propose getting these children out of Gaza whilst all borders are closed?

Hamas is in charge of the Health Ministry, as all news agencies state at the beginning of any item on Gaza. They will need to be part of the dialogue.

Orphans should always go with family where possible, how on earth are the aid agencies if and when they are allowed access to them going to find out who and where any living relatives are?

Yes I absolutely recognise the difficulties.

But let me repeat

That was not the question.

The question if you need reminding was whether the U.K. is a morally bankrupt country.

I disagree - it isn’t, and then gave the example of why it isn’t. A British doctor who moved heaven and hell to get his nephew out of Gaza - so it can be done., and undoubtedly can be made easier for all these children if the will is there.

But i think the government certainly is morally bankrupt - I think very few will disagree with that.

It’s no good talking sense GG. Some posters don’t want to know about the practicalities.

Whitewavemark2

There are 11000 orphaned children in Gaza. So if they were all lucky enough to have a family living elsewhere in the world their little lives would have some hope and happiness for the future.

Spread around the world this is such a tiny number. Even if incredibly all their relatives lived in the U.K. - those children would only represent about a weeks worth of asylum seekers coming to the U.K. on boats, with which this government appears entirely incapable of dealing. As it is their numbers would not represent one days worth of asylum seekers.

And as they are coming to live with an established family they will not need intervention by government agencies etc.

How do you propose getting these children out of Gaza whilst all borders are closed?

Hamas is in charge of the Health Ministry, as all news agencies state at the beginning of any item on Gaza. They will need to be part of the dialogue.

Orphans should always go with family where possible, how on earth are the aid agencies if and when they are allowed access to them going to find out who and where any living relatives are?

Children should not be left orphaned in the crumbling ruins of a war-torn country. The world, this country, can do better.

Are some posters being deliberately obtuse?

There are 11000 orphaned children in Gaza. So if they were all lucky enough to have a family living elsewhere in the world their little lives would have some hope and happiness for the future.

Spread around the world this is such a tiny number. Even if incredibly all their relatives lived in the U.K. - those children would only represent about a weeks worth of asylum seekers coming to the U.K. on boats, with which this government appears entirely incapable of dealing. As it is their numbers would not represent one days worth of asylum seekers.

And as they are coming to live with an established family they will not need intervention by government agencies etc.

Callistemon213

^Why wouldn’t anyone do that?^

Because of the massive difficulties facing people wanting to leave Gaza?

The Russians were not blocking all Ukraine's borders.

Even Egypt closed its border with Gaza and had refused entry to refugees.

Yes, but everybody doesn’t accept that.
If it’s really that easy, it will happen on July 5th without any need for solutions to issues raised on here.

Callistemon213

^Why wouldn’t anyone do that?^

Because of the massive difficulties facing people wanting to leave Gaza?

The Russians were not blocking all Ukraine's borders.

Even Egypt closed its border with Gaza and had refused entry to refugees.

Yes - I’m not sure of your point. No one is disputing what you are saying.

The question asks whether the U.K. is a morally bankrupt country.

I think not.

But I know that the present government is and can give example after example to support my opinion.

Why wouldn’t anyone do that?

Because of the massive difficulties facing people wanting to leave Gaza?

The Russians were not blocking all Ukraine's borders.

Even Egypt closed its border with Gaza and had refused entry to refugees.

Have you not understood the explanations of why Cleverly could not make an off the cuff statement, or are you blinded by your desire to insult him and his colleagues?

The news item has begun with a British anaesthetist who was related to a child whose entire family - parents, grandparents and his siblings were killed in his home whilst the child was playing outside. He received head injuries, but survived.

The British anaesthetist is the child’s uncle so arranged with what seemed massive difficulty to get the child out of Gaza and into Egypt for medical care. After which he was brought home to Britain to live with his extended family, and I assume adopted.

Why wouldn’t anyone do that?

Cleverly was being his usual dim self, and tbh I wouldn’t take too much notice of what he said, as he along with his morally bankrupt government will hopefully soon be out on his ear.

No I don’t think the country as a whole is morally bankrupt, although we are all aware of individuals that are devoid of the empathy gene, but I think that the vast majority have more compassion than some argue is not there.

I have compassion for every living person and creature on the planet. I don't think we are morally bankrupt, however springing a question like that which makes James Cleverly out to be a complete b*****rd, should he not answer in the manner of the stitch up, I think is wrong. The consquences of any discussion on the Gaza topic are serious for all concerned and not to be taken lightly, or whereby the MSM could twist the answer out of context, which they do on a regular basis, with DM online being one of the worst. And I sincerely dislike Tories at the moment.

Cossy

These are CHILDREN! Where has your compassion gone?

It shouldn’t matter about the politics or nationality, if they have family legally settled here, of course they should be allowed to come.

How would you feel if these children were your grandchildren or nieces/nephews?

Surely this also should be obvious, but evidently not to everyone.