Trans women have a cervix according to David Lammy.

Violet its a biological fact. Its a bit worrying that people are brainwashing their children with such nonsense, its not right. Men do not have a cervix. Women do not have a penis. I could have my breasts removed have a hysterectomy, I would still be a woman.

Genuinely if you guys can't understand that what was said in this OP is not true and not what was said or meant, there is nothing I can do to help you understand

I have never agreed with beliefs that warp others meanings and intent to suit an agenda

Especially while waiting for the stars to come out in a universe far bigger than any of us

I don't know much bout reconstructive surgery, but not sure why trans men would need a cervix. Yes a neo vagina enables them to look and feel womanly but i don't agree that you could call the top of the vagina a neo cervix.

I honestly under no circumstances need your help to understand this issue and the misogyny underlying it.

I have never agreed with beliefs that warp others meanings and intent to suit an agenda



This is exactly what the trans lobby is doing. Telling children they are 'in the wrong body'. Calling biological realists 'transphobes'. Claiming that transpeople have fewer human rights than the rest of us. The list goes on and on and on.

VioletSky

Drama = interpreting a comment in an untrue way and posting about on the internet

Truth = pointing that out

The truth is that males do not have a
female reproductive equipment.
The drama is trying to find ways to refute the truth that biological sex is immutable.
The truth is the truth.
The drama is presenting a lie as the truth.
Humanity is not lying about the truth or trying to force others to accept the lie that you believe.

VioletSky

Genuinely if you guys can't understand that what was said in this OP is not true and not what was said or meant, there is nothing I can do to help you understand

I have never agreed with beliefs that warp others meanings and intent to suit an agenda

Especially while waiting for the stars to come out in a universe far bigger than any of us

I have never agreed with beliefs that warp others meanings and intent to suit an agenda

Me neither Violetsky

That is why what Allsorts and others have said is the truth.

You can believe what you like but it doesn't make it true.

Any definition s fuzzy around the edges, there will always be grey areas, but for all but a very few people, women have cervixes, and men don't.

Th equally ridiculous idea that to generalise when that generalisation applies to an overwhelming percentage of the population is therefore demeaning and dirspecctful to that small minority that do not fall within it says more about the person objecting than the speaker.

I have spent most of my life being the odd one out and I have seen myself for what I am and it has never occurred to me to take exception. However I always prefer to start my generalisations with a phrase like 'Most people' , 'The majority of people' or 'All but a small minority'.

People who are accepting of trans people are not a "lobby". I've never lobbied an anything in regards to trans people

I'm just an individual, I can view statements from other individuals as they are without shaping it to fit my own agenda

This thread title is a terrible start to any argument/belief, I think if you are willing to accept that then you need to self reflect on why and whether you would allow it in any other topic

Lammy is stating that hormones create a cervix, which is impossible.

Perhaps this is the problem . We and you do not have control over other peoples speech. So it's not really a case of 'allowing', we and you dont control what is posted on GN. I know that's tricky for some to cope with.

This thread title is a terrible start to any argument/belief, I think if you are willing to accept that then you need to self reflect on why and whether you would allow it in any other topic

As long as something is within guidelines what's the problem?

I think David Lammy needs a basic lesson in biology.
Is that ok?

I'd go and gaze at the stars but it's gone a bit cool out there.

Look at the stars
Look how they shine for you
And everything you do
Yeah, they were all yellow

He doesn't say that

He simply does not understand that someone having an operation to create a vagina (which generally happens after hormone treatment) doesn't need a cervix, just a vaginal canal...

Which is what he means... How many women are out there who cannot correctly label their own genitalia? Let alone men...

Also again, the statement that only women can have a cervix is untrue... Trans men may have a cervix

And a cervix is not what defines a "woman" either... Why aren't you angry that for the sake of argument we are being reduced to simple anatomy? Why don't you want to be who you are because you fought to be it and went through a lot to protect it? Therefore accepting anyone who wants that for you and themselves?

No one is 'not accepting' of transpeople.

Anyone can be anything they want. All we are saying is that there is one limit, which is beyond our control, and that is biological. There are 2 sexes which are biologically distinct, yes, there are inevitably the fuzzy edges where, for a few, a very few, people are biologically not distinct, but what sex we are born we can never change.

People can adjust their bodies by surgery and drugs but their natal sex remains.

If someone, unknown, got lost in some wilderness and when their body was discovered, they were just a skeleton, no clothes or anything to identfy their gender. Scientist would take a DNA sample and the first ting it would tell them would be that person's sex, regardless of what gender they may have been when living.

When someone is identified in that way, hopefully they are mourned by the family who loved them as who they are... Not a test result, a person

Also we do not need 1 million threads to say "sex is a biological fact" or whatever... Just one would do, no replies needed... We know people are assigned a sex at birth and what it is based on... The problem is that doesn't seem to work for everyone

Unless of course people want to seriously discuss the 21 differences in 17 genes in trans people, or the hypothesis that some early development brains are being washed with the wrong hormones in pregnancy, or the fact that intersex people exist and there could be more to that spectrum... Or how perhaps we should demand more research is done on that subject so that we can use the information to better support gender dysphoria to prevent mistakes... Or how the heck we are still raising men who women need to fear... Or any of the actual reasons this is happening

Society is broken, not the people trying to be happy in it

Same old same old VS.
What you don’t seem to get is that people can say they are something they aren’t, but it doesn’t change what they are.
*Most of the time it’s not a problem and they are welcome to dress, how they feel. However, when saying you are something you are not harms other people or is used to cheat and lie into places where they should not be, then it matters.
It is only a tiny minority of TW who do that and spoil life for people with gender dysphoria who do not do not lie and cheat.

What about others, who want to live as something they aren’t whose claims about what they are are harmful.
Would you support the Walter Mitty police officer who made untrue claims about what he was? Do you see his desire to live as something he isn’t, as acceptable?

Or the people who impersonate medical staff, endangering patients lives?
Living out their life as a doctor because they feel they are that role they are enacting.

NB
People with DSD do not like being used to promote the cause of those with real or pretend gender dysphoria.
If you’ve read or investigated enough you would know that.

I'm not interested in stereotyping or comparing trans people to unfavourable groups due to fear, I will never support any group being condemned for the actions of a few and I will never act with prejudice against any protected characteristic as laid out by the equality act which is there to protect those who need it

More likely Violet you want to exercise your "right to not read" in case you see something that disagrees with your existing viewpoint.
This from Gov.uk :- The UK government defines sex as:
referring to the biological aspects of an individual as determined by their anatomy, which is produced by
their chromosomes, hormones and their interactions
-- generally male or female
-- something that is assigned at birth.
The UK government defines gender as:
a social construction relating to behaviours and attributes based on labels of masculinity and femininity;
gender identity is a personal, internal perception of oneself and so the gender category someone identifies
with may not match the sex they were assigned at birth
where an individual may see themselves as a man, a woman, as having no gender, or as having a nonbinary gender.

It got realised a few years ago that a substantial number of men were finding it a handy wheeze to PRETEND to be trans-women so they could be allocated a cushy spot in a female prison - where a number of opportunities became available for them -- or to gain access to a female 'refuge'. It also gradually got realised that the interests of the actual women in such facilities far outweigh those of genuine trans personnel.

In a similar way, a number of men found that if they 'became' a 'woman', they could magically attain Olympic status in sports. Again, the interests of the real women in sport far outweigh those of the very few genuine 'trans' folk.

For anyone in ANY doubt, David Lammy may well be in line to be a Govt Minister when Labour win the July 4th election, but that does NOT alter the fact that for many years he has been a well-meaning imbecile. [he's not alone in the Commons of course, the Tories selected Liz Truss as PM].

A few years ago, BBC had an excellent politics magazine program ('This Week'), Thursday nights, after Question Time, hosted by Andrew Neil. It had 3 sections, usually some sort of discussion piece, with a recent topic of interest, a light-hearted satire of something in the news, AND a discussion between a guest and the resident panellists, who were Portillo for the Tory interest, and Diane Abbott on the other end of the sofa, for Labour.

Sometimes, if the hapless Diana wasn't there (invariably got shown up), they had a Labour 'sub', who might be Alan Johnson (excellent, always knew his stuff), but sometimes it was David Lammy, who was without fail humiliated, sometimes reduced to near tears, as he was exposed as knowing next to nothing about Labour history and policies, and at times, nothing about just about everything. I believe he's a Barrister -- if so, they must have had extra simple exams the week he got in.

The poor man doubtless means well, but invariably comes across as hopelessly ill-informed, but with an overlay of bumptious arrogance about his own importance. Did someone say he's likely to be Foreign Sec?? We really don't need another bumbling nitwit representing us abroad, do we?

When someone is identified in that way, hopefully they are mourned by the family who loved them as who they are... Not a test result, a person

Entirely missing the point VS.

Identifying the remains of a long-dead individual missing in some wilderness is a necessary procedure to discover who that person is - it's not a process that is carried out in order to reduce their humanity.

How they are mourned afterward is a completely separate issue.

Also we do not need 1 million threads to say "sex is a biological fact" or whatever... Just one would do, no replies needed... We know people are assigned a sex at birth and what it is based on... The problem is that doesn't seem to work for everyone

Well apart from the slight exaggeration ( 1 million threads?!) - clarifying that sex is a biological fact repeatedly seems to be necessary because we are constantly being told that it isn't.

And no, it doesn't 'work' for everyone - which is why people are free to identify as they wish. But that doesn't alter their basic biology.

VS
We certainly don’t need even a small fraction of your exaggerated number of threads, to explain that sex is immutable.

We wouldn’t need more than one, except for the constant drip feed of posts where sex and gender are conflated.

We wouldn’t even need more than one thread about people suffering from gender dysphoria if that was not deceitfully used as an excuse by some in order to commit wrongdoings.

Really fed up of this crap...

How long is all this going to go on for? It's becoming an obsession!
A man's body is different from a woman's in many ways, not just the genitals. Therefore a man's body cannot be changed into a woman's.
A person can live as their chosen gender, even be accepted by society as their chosen gender....but physically they will remain their birth gender.
That's it in a nutshell.

I agree that a man's body cannot be changed into a woman's, and I guess the arguments will go on for as long as people insist that it can, and that consequently women as a sex class should cease to exist.

Is resisting that an obsession?

VioletSky

He doesn't say that

He simply does not understand that someone having an operation to create a vagina (which generally happens after hormone treatment) doesn't need a cervix, just a vaginal canal...

Which is what he means... How many women are out there who cannot correctly label their own genitalia? Let alone men...

Also again, the statement that only women can have a cervix is untrue... Trans men may have a cervix

And a cervix is not what defines a "woman" either... Why aren't you angry that for the sake of argument we are being reduced to simple anatomy? Why don't you want to be who you are because you fought to be it and went through a lot to protect it? Therefore accepting anyone who wants that for you and themselves?

I've just had an operation to replace a body part. I would not call it by the original name I used for that body part because it's not. I hope it will function well but it is an artificial construct.

Trans men do not have cervices. What they could have, presumably courtesy of our NHS, is an artificial construct to resemble a cervix.