Anyone else feel a sense of impending doom that we’ll have a Labour government tomorrow?

maddyone

Indeed the government must act within the law, but the law can be changed!

Yes, it can be changed, but the government has to go through parliamentary procedure to do that. No government can act in an unlawful way.

ronib

growstuff what do you mean? The civil service is there to carry out the wishes of government. The law is supreme? Are you not understanding that the Civil Service deliberately held up the law on immigration to prevent the Conservative policy being enacted? The government was acting lawfully.

I understand more than you seem to think. The government cannot get the civil service do something which is unlawful.

First priority - keep the doctors we have already. BMA notes this.

Yes the increase will only eventually come from more training.
In terms of recruitment from abroad, the BMA points out that the immigration points system needs to be changed to allow doctors families to come with them.

www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/bma-responds-to-labour-party-manifesto

Indeed the government must act within the law, but the law can be changed!

growstuff what do you mean? The civil service is there to carry out the wishes of government. The law is supreme? Are you not understanding that the Civil Service deliberately held up the law on immigration to prevent the Conservative policy being enacted? The government was acting lawfully.

There won’t be lots more doctors for years Molly unfortunately. It takes many years to train a doctor and they can’t go straight into GP surgeries without a further three year training course. Many more doctors in the immediate future is impossible. Where are they coming from? Like the 6000 more teachers, they’re coming from cloud cuckoo land. An improved offer to the doctors is crucial but it won’t solve the doctor shortage.

ronib

growstuff the evidence is that the Association for the First Division took the Conservative government to court to challenge the legality of its immigration policy. The judge found in favour of the government.
Just to be clear I am not a supporter of Reform …… I have not paid £25!

And so they should have done! In the UK, the law is supreme - and thank goodness for that. Just imagine if real nutters were to be in government and order something outrageous, such as the execution of everybody with a certain religion. The law would stop them. If you think that's far-fetched, just cast your mind back to 1930s Germany. Any government must behave within the constraints of the law.

maddyone

Oh, I forgot, reopening talks with the doctors - thank goodness.

I’m hoping they get somewhere with the doctors too.
35% pay rise-if they settle for less, I wonder why they’ve been out on strike so much.
Lots more doctors, Hundreds more GP appointments. Bring it on!

Oh, I forgot, reopening talks with the doctors - thank goodness.

Sallywally1

In the last fourteen years of Tory rule the number of food bank users has risen to 2.56 million. Many people are on their knees due to cost of living increases.

I am hopeful that a new labour government will be better at tackling these and other social issues.

The new government are not interested in food banks. According to what’s been reported so far, the government is interested in ending the Rwanda plan, forging closer links with the EU via David Lammy who has already started talks with the EU, and changing the planning laws in order to build more houses. These are the priorities for the new government.

growstuff the evidence is that the Association for the First Division took the Conservative government to court to challenge the legality of its immigration policy. The judge found in favour of the government.
Just to be clear I am not a supporter of Reform …… I have not paid £25!

Mollygo

What astonishes me is that anyone expected anything different.
13 years of Labour, made people want a change because they weren’t happy about what the party in power was doing.
14 years of Conservatives, people wanted a change because they weren’t happy about what the party in power was doing.
If we are alive long enough to see it, maybe it will be 15 years before we get fed up this time.

I didn't expect any different. What I didn't expect was that the government and Conservative Party would end up as a shambles. I remember that when Blair won in 1997, people were ready for a change, but I don't remember the government being so chaotic.

Blimey ronib have you swallowed Reform hook line and sinker😄😄.

I would take a deep breath if I were you

ronib

Doodledog and LizzieDrip there’s recognition that this country has now moved away from lawlessness and disorder but caused by an absence of cohesive government? Surely caused by a bureaucracy which failed to endorse the policies of the Conservative government?
However if the sunlit uplands are in sight under Labour, all well and good as this country is in desperate need of better governance. But it’s very early days and the bureaucracy is happy for the time being. Will it last?

What concrete examples do you have that the "bureaucracy" (whatever that is) has failed to endorse Conservative policies?

What astonishes me is that anyone expected anything different.
13 years of Labour, made people want a change because they weren’t happy about what the party in power was doing.
14 years of Conservatives, people wanted a change because they weren’t happy about what the party in power was doing.
If we are alive long enough to see it, maybe it will be 15 years before we get fed up this time.

Doodledog and LizzieDrip there’s recognition that this country has now moved away from lawlessness and disorder but caused by an absence of cohesive government? Surely caused by a bureaucracy which failed to endorse the policies of the Conservative government?
However if the sunlit uplands are in sight under Labour, all well and good as this country is in desperate need of better governance. But it’s very early days and the bureaucracy is happy for the time being. Will it last?

growstuff

Impending doom? No! I feel cautious optimism.

As do I.

We have nothing like a state of anarchy in this country, we have witnessed a polite, courteous hand over of power, although I do expect things to become more confrontational once the Tories sort themselves out. As for Reform, a shoal of small noisy fish in a very big pond.

MaizieD Tice won’t have any option but to move to membership with voting rights if he wants the party to grow. There’s little point in beating the drum about the way the country is governed unless Reform itself has democratic legitimacy.

Impending doom? No! I feel cautious optimism.

In the last fourteen years of Tory rule the number of food bank users has risen to 2.56 million. Many people are on their knees due to cost of living increases.

I am hopeful that a new labour government will be better at tackling these and other social issues.

NO!
A sensible man with integrity in charge! Bring it on. If we have to pay more for a better country for everyone so be it. With those who have the most, giving the most.
Those of us who enjoyed free university, good health services and low housing costs owe it to the young to improve things for them.

We will have to wait and see how things work out so I am not going to worry about anything at the moment. It is early days yet, so let them get on with it.

If they mess up, they won't be elected again.

LizzieDrip

^From another perspective, this country is currently in a state of anarchy^

ronib that’s what Farage et al would like people to think, as it aligns with their ‘anti-establishment’ agenda.

The country is clearly not in a state of anarchy - our democratic election, smooth transfer of power and functioning government, have just proved that.

Agreed, Lizziedrip.

If anarchy is a state of lawlessness and disorder caused by an absence of cohesive government, then it feels as though we are moving away from that towards the sunlit uplands .

From another perspective, this country is currently in a state of anarchy

ronib that’s what Farage et al would like people to think, as it aligns with their ‘anti-establishment’ agenda.

The country is clearly not in a state of anarchy - our democratic election, smooth transfer of power and functioning government, have just proved that.

ronib

Casdon

People who pay a subscription to Reform are supporters, not members of a democratic party. They have no voting rights.

Casdon give Reform time to build a membership and then voting rights will follow. A remarkable 6 weeks all in all and they’re not going away.

That is a contradiction in terms, you cannot have membership of something that is a private limited company.

In a long but very intersting article I found this summary of what Reform is:

Reform company documents reveal a unique structure for a UK political Party which gives almost total control to its leader, Tice. The structure has been criticised for not providing the party’s more than 115,000 paying registered supporters with any voting power to influence policy. Perhaps the party’s funders and shareholders have more say.

The full and very detailed article can be found at ]]bylinetimes.com/2024/01/18/reform-uk-limited-the-political-business-brought-to-you-by-billionaires/]]

The chances of Reform 'members' getting any voting rights stand at roughly 0%