Minister for Women and Equalities

I do wonder why Rosie Duffield has stayed with a party which holds her in such disdain?

If RD couldn't garner any support from inside the party after all this time, I don't really see how a letter or even a petition from the general public, complaining to their MP would hold much sway now?

But maybe my perspective will prove to be wrong?

I'd be the first to cheer if it was.

I’d have loved to see Rosie Duffield. appointed minister for women too, but Starmer has never supported her in any way, which absolutely disgusts me. I had to hold my nose almost to the point of suffocation to put my X by the Labour candidate. I’ll give them time, but will keep my pitchfork dusted off too Doodledog

Things people have said in the past are often used to condemn them in the present, think of Boris and some of his remarks that are often brought up. I’d be happier if Dodds, Lammy etc actually said they have changed their minds, educated themselves or are now clear about what a woman is.

Tights🤣🤣 = rights

Of course tights for women are important. Free speech is also at the root of this problem.
But imv schools, children's institutions, clubs etc. are badly in need of change.

I agree vegansrock .

Anyone who dares to say that a transwoman is not a woman, is shot down in flames as I have been. JKR says it all the time and I’m so pleased she and some other well known women aren’t frightened to face truth and reality.

I’m sure the majority of transwomen just want to get on with their lives. It is the militant transwomen I find very frightening.

Unfortunately those who hold the line in respect of men being lawfully men, and women being women have little or no power to change or uphold the the law.
All parties have MPs who have children who are now transitioning.

There is no appetite to support bio sex in any meaningful way.

I do support in my life off GN, many practical ways of trying to rectify
this awful problem.

I dont spout about them because I prefer not to.

But anyone who thinks that this subject is going to be rectified by a handful of laws is mistaken.
As was said up thread, it really isnt practical or financially viable for individuals to have to rely on the court process to gain satisfaction.
Eventually all but the wealthy or determined will be closed down.

Thank goodness for KJK (who gets no recognition) and JK Rowling.

I don't care if someone wears trousers or a skirt in public - I do care if a man takes his clothes off in a space reserved for women and girls, and that is the crux of the matter.

Telling children they are 'in the wrong body' and competitive sports are also important, as is mangling the language to make women invisible.

No one cares whether someone calls themselves Arthur or Martha, wears a skirt or trousers- let them get on with their lives, what doesn’t make sense is denying biological realities.

Wyllow3

You can put more specific guidelines in place under the Equality Act, but it's still up to the institutions to carry them out, and I can't honestly see a way round women having to report incidents under any sort of legislation?

Sadly, I can’t either, other than by relying on the honesty of biological males to stay out of female safe spaces and it seems that’s too much to ask of a minority of TW.

A start could be made by making it clear that the government absolutely uphold the fact that you can’t change sex, and that transwomen are not women and transmen are not men.
Follow that up by making it a specific offence to claim to be the sex you are not in inappropriate places, e.g. male in women’s sports, female safe spaces, places where women’s (AHF) support has been requested, taking awards that have “woman/women in the title, or events specifically for lesbians.

Since the majority of trans do not do any of those things they could hope to live or, as those that posters on GN have mentioned, continue to live in peace.

Not trying to derail Willow3 far from it.

No political party had anything of note to say before the election on this issue, and what little was spoken didnt sound that positive to my ears.

Horse bolted and door come to mind now.

Doodledog I dont agree with your post of
14.36.
In this case you are the individual, I was not including you or what you said.
I thought it was clear the pejorative term 'spouting' was used against all the political parties who Imo have extremely similar positions with regards to this issue.

maddyone

As Yvette Cooper apparently has got a trans child, she clearly wouldn’t have been a good choice for a Women’s Minister. Annaliese Dodds certainly isn’t. Reading through this thread has made me see that the decision to appoint her probably was deliberate, given her views. It takes the heat off Starmer I suppose, and that’s probably the thinking behind it.

Doodledog I think people are now saying wait and see. That wasn’t what anyone was saying before the election. As far as I’m concerned, it doesn’t matter which party are in government. Everyone from Gransnetters to the PM should know and acknowledge
that a woman is a person who is biologically a woman. There’s no halfway (except for the tiny minority who are intersex, but we’re not discussing them) because a woman is a woman. Trans people need to be treated with the same respect and dignity that should be afforded to everyone else, but that does not mean competing in women’s sports, or using women’s changing rooms unless fully transformed by surgery, or being placed into women’s wards in hospital unless fully transformed by surgery. I didn’t have much time for Sunak, but he was clear about what a woman is. Putting this issue into the hands of Annaliese Dodds is fudging the issue. It should have been made clear what a woman is a long time ago, and not allowed to run on and on. And no, I don’t want to wait several months or longer for AD to decide what she thinks a woman is (although clearly as she is one, she ought to know.)

J K Rowling is fighting the good fight on women’s spaces. Good for her . She hasn’t fudged the issue.

I agree with all of this maddyone.

I see. And if the aforementioned 'spouting' is not done by individuals, who is doing it? A party can't 'spout' can it?

spouting

pejorative put downs without actually offering any solutions to this ongoing and very complex issue: attempts to derail discussion.

Either way, my question applies though.

What do you mean by 'spouting', and how does it differ from just saying something? It's not a word I hear very often.

I think you have misread my post Doodledog

My post mentions political parties, so therefore I was referring to pp, not individuals.
If I haven't made that clear enough, I apologise.

When does saying what you think become 'spouting'?

Sorry, but anyone expecting a Labour Gov to actually be better than Con. Or Lib Dem on this issue is probably acting in a naive fashion.
All parties have spouted similar things.

Wyllow3

You can put more specific guidelines in place under the Equality Act, but it's still up to the institutions to carry them out, and I can't honestly see a way round women having to report incidents under any sort of legislation?

I don't think it should be up to women to come up with solutions to what is a male problem. That is a cop-out that is never suggested in other areas of law. I'm not sure that drafting legislation should ever be a single sex task, but in this case the demands for women to solve the problem always come with the caveat that the only acceptable solutions will be those agreeing that TWAW, which of course they are not, so it's impossible.

The important thing is that everyone knows their rights and responsibilities, and these should apply across the board. For this to work there needs to be proper advice from the government (something the last government never provided) as otherwise everything becomes negotiable depending on venue, and nobody - whether that's the transpeople, the staff or the complainants - knows how to behave.

Reform aren’t in power and unlikely ever to be so, therefore irrelevant.

Yes, it is Reform policy to abolish the Equalities Act (ie for both Women and Racial minorities) - I've just checked

God help us all then😱

You can put more specific guidelines in place under the Equality Act, but it's still up to the institutions to carry them out, and I can't honestly see a way round women having to report incidents under any sort of legislation?

Yes, it is Reform policy to abolish the Equalities Act (ie for both Women and Racial minorities) - I've just checked.

The matter of how to protect female safe spaces comes up often on GN. Usually replied to by saying it’s up to the females to complain.
Two things I’d like to see more information about, following Starmer’s speech.
First the one mentioned by TerriBull above.
If females report males in changing rooms/toilets etc , what action will Labour take to support the females.
What action will Labour put in place to protect females from having to report males wrongfully entering female spaces?

Lots of women clearly voted for all parties, so it’s clearly not the fear of ALL women. I’m more concerned about women who voted for the Trump-like Reform party, their stance on women is appalling

I agree!

I agree with your last paragraph Wyllow, I'm thinking in particular of a recent case of nurses complaining about sharing a changing/locker room with a transwoman. I'm not trying to conflate this with any Labour policy as it happened before they took office. The nurses stated a feeling of disquiet as fully intact trans woman tended to engage them in conversation whilst they were in a state of undress. When they complained they were told, "use the toilets to get changed then" which seems to be the default position certainly offered to sportswomen in the US when they have said they feel uncomfortable changing in the presence of a trans woman who is physically male. It's almost as if the request they are making is bizarre and somehow outrageous. Turn back the clock a few years, before the western world went down this insane path, and that would have been the complete opposite.