Minister for Women and Equalities

This is a good example of what a poster alluded to above, which is that only part of the debate its within political parties.

Its out there in the community and people have and will debate accordingly.

Another example is a key one - on whether trans women can compete with women in sport. Its actually not in the hands of political parties, but in national and international sports bodies.

Well said Doodledog. I’m also with Terribull on the subject of Women’s Rights.

I wear my suffragette brooch at WI as a statement, even though National WI will not protect biological women and did not allow members to vote on the inclusion of transwomen in the WI. They insist transwomen are ‘women’ when I say they are transwomen who I wish no ill will to. 3035 members of the WI have asked for a vote and they are still being ignored.

I note that Hilary Cass has been given a seat in the HoL, which is excellent. It's great that she will be able to use her position to influence legislation.

Before anyone gloats, I am fully aware that it was Sunak wot dunnit (), but I've never seen this as a left/right split, but as a women's/men's rights one.

Doodledog

Maddie, again, I have not changed my stance. I have never said there is a half way position, and that remains my opinion on the matter. I am more tolerant than some about fully transitioned transwomen accessing spaces, but I still don't think they are women, and understand the belief that they shouldn't be an exception.

This feels like one of those situations where people just aren't listening to what others are saying because of party politics.

What I am saying is not that I will accept less from Labour, but that after a couple of days I wouldn't have expected anyone to have announced, never mind implemented policies, and I see no alternative to 'wait and see'. I am not the type to criticise anyone for what they haven't even announced, and I did criticise both Lammy and Dodds when they said the things they did. I see carping on about it now as obstructive to the change in policy that I hope to see, and I am not going to do that. I will be 'on the case' if AL makes a mess of things, but I am not going to push her into a corner at this stage and risk what we have fought for for so long.

Currently: The Labour Party supports biological women only spaces: Starmer made this clear in one of the head to head leadership debates on 29th June. On question time position on biological sex clear
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/rosie-duffield-tony-blair-holyrood-basingstoke-canterbury-b2564637.html

also see the Telegraph on use of single sex toilets
www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/01/labour-frontbencher-refuses-to-answer-trans-toilet-question/

The Labour Party does not agree with self identification, it agrees with GRA in order to change gender ID.

The Labour Party accepts the Cass report.
More bits and pieces, like within other parties things are still under discussion.

I do agree we mustn't anticipate, this is a brand new administration and they deserve a fair crack of the whip, we need to remain open minded. I hope they will respect the things that matter, our safety, our dignity and a fair playing field and the freedom not to be co-erced into situations where we are uncomfortable.

Cossy

TerriBull

Oh yes Rosie Duffield our dream Minister for Women that would allay a lot of fears. I don't think the LP should under estimate how many women feel so strongly on these matters, we are 50% of the electorate, ignoring majority wishes will not bode well.

Lots of women clearly voted for all parties, so it’s clearly not the fear of ALL women.

I’m more concerned about women who voted for the Trump-like Reform party, their stance on women is appalling!

I'm one for whom the issue is very low down on my agenda.

Cossy

The bottom line is no one can be a “biological” woman or man, unless they are born such.

Got to admit its a bit worrying though going off previous expressed views by Starmer that he thinks women can have penises and Lammy that men can grow a cervix.

The bottom line is no one can be a “biological” woman or man, unless they are born such.

Doodledog

Very good points and I agree completely.

All this constant, unrelenting criticism and sniping when the LP haven’t even been in power for a week is utterly pathetic.

By all means criticise if (or when) the LP fail and spend their time partying and giving their chums lucrative contracts.

Terribull Very good point.

Maddie, again, I have not changed my stance. I have never said there is a half way position, and that remains my opinion on the matter. I am more tolerant than some about fully transitioned transwomen accessing spaces, but I still don't think they are women, and understand the belief that they shouldn't be an exception.

This feels like one of those situations where people just aren't listening to what others are saying because of party politics.

What I am saying is not that I will accept less from Labour, but that after a couple of days I wouldn't have expected anyone to have announced, never mind implemented policies, and I see no alternative to 'wait and see'. I am not the type to criticise anyone for what they haven't even announced, and I did criticise both Lammy and Dodds when they said the things they did. I see carping on about it now as obstructive to the change in policy that I hope to see, and I am not going to do that. I will be 'on the case' if AL makes a mess of things, but I am not going to push her into a corner at this stage and risk what we have fought for for so long.

maddyone Joel Cooper is a trans and LGBTQ activist, have seen nothing to say he is trans himself.

"Lots of women voted for all parties so it's clear not an issue for ALL women"

No I imagine it isn't an issue for all women but there is a ground swell of evidence that for some of us it is. I also appreciate that women voted for all the parties, but I think it would be fair to say that 'some' did so not with their heart but with a desire for a change.

Galaxy

Oh under no circumstances have I changed my mind because I wanted a labour government. If they go back down that line I will never vote for them again.

Same with me. I held my nose walking into the booth.
One daughter didn’t vote for Labour because of this issue.

Not only Labour to be watched

Absolutely correct eazybee. But Labour hold all the cards at the moment.

Prior to the election a local Lib Dem candidate at the hustings, asked to define a woman, responded that 'David Tennant is a great man', citing his comments about Kemi Badenoch and his support for trans activists. Loud cheers from her supporters and she was later elected. Needless to say, she couldn't or wouldn't define a woman.

Not only Labour to be watched.

As Yvette Cooper apparently has got a trans child, she clearly wouldn’t have been a good choice for a Women’s Minister. Annaliese Dodds certainly isn’t. Reading through this thread has made me see that the decision to appoint her probably was deliberate, given her views. It takes the heat off Starmer I suppose, and that’s probably the thinking behind it.

Doodledog I think people are now saying wait and see. That wasn’t what anyone was saying before the election. As far as I’m concerned, it doesn’t matter which party are in government. Everyone from Gransnetters to the PM should know and acknowledge
that a woman is a person who is biologically a woman. There’s no halfway (except for the tiny minority who are intersex, but we’re not discussing them) because a woman is a woman. Trans people need to be treated with the same respect and dignity that should be afforded to everyone else, but that does not mean competing in women’s sports, or using women’s changing rooms unless fully transformed by surgery, or being placed into women’s wards in hospital unless fully transformed by surgery. I didn’t have much time for Sunak, but he was clear about what a woman is. Putting this issue into the hands of Annaliese Dodds is fudging the issue. It should have been made clear what a woman is a long time ago, and not allowed to run on and on. And no, I don’t want to wait several months or longer for AD to decide what she thinks a woman is (although clearly as she is one, she ought to know.)

J K Rowling is fighting the good fight on women’s spaces. Good for her . She hasn’t fudged the issue.

TerriBull

Oh yes Rosie Duffield our dream Minister for Women that would allay a lot of fears. I don't think the LP should under estimate how many women feel so strongly on these matters, we are 50% of the electorate, ignoring majority wishes will not bode well.

Lots of women clearly voted for all parties, so it’s clearly not the fear of ALL women.

I’m more concerned about women who voted for the Trump-like Reform party, their stance on women is appalling!

JenniferEccles

But is five years all they’ll get though?
There are plans afoot like giving votes to schoolchildren, which could keep them in power for longer, heaven help us.
I’ve also heard rumours about giving prisoners the vote, which ties in quite nicely with releasing them early doesn’t it?

I’ve always said it won’t take long for this government to show its true colours, and as we can see from this ‘what is a woman’ nonsense, it’s already started.

We’ve also learned that the Green Belt isn’t safe from a massive house building plan.
Who are these houses for?
Well, we all know the answer to that, don’t we?

Do we? As for the rumours you’ve heard, that’s exactly what they are “rumours”

Their plan is to initially build on brown and grey belt.

Let’s wait and see before we launch into full scale critique of the LP, at least let them be in power for a a full week!

TerriBull I agree with your last two posts 100%

Freya5

Mollygo

It wasn’t how long ago (that was easy enough to find out) that I found strange. It was the fact that he appointed someone unsure of or unwilling to say what a woman is -as minister for women and equality.
I think it reflects badly on his choice-unless it was deliberate and reflects what he really thinks.

From what he's previously spouted, this post was deliberate. An affront to biological women. What a slap in the face for us all. Happy to say I never voted for this.

I don't think Keir 'spouts'. He is very well considered as a rule.

How often do people have say it? The LP position is shifting, and they need time to make changes. If those changes are not forthcoming, they will have a lot of angry women to contend with, but anyone who genuinely wants to see change won't be trying to block any progress by dragging up old mistakes - they will be cheering on any progress as they see it happen.

Oh yes Rosie Duffield our dream Minister for Women that would allay a lot of fears. I don't think the LP should under estimate how many women feel so strongly on these matters, we are 50% of the electorate, ignoring majority wishes will not bode well.

maddyone

Women need safe spaces, and no one should be changing their position on this just because they support the Labour Party. It shouldn’t really even be a party political issue, but unfortunately some politicians have made it so, so maybe because it suits the agenda, or because they support minority rights and don’t want to upset the trans lobby. Well the vociferous few in the trans lobby aren’t afraid of upsetting anyone. Most trans people probably want to live a quiet life. Anyone, politician or not, needs to realise that biology cannot be changed and a man cannot become a woman even though a man can decide to live as a woman. They should be okay with using the baby change/disability facilities which are gender neutral and not be demanding to use women’s safe spaces, and Labour politicians and politicians of any other party need to realise this. It’s really quite straightforward.

Maddie, do you know of anyone who has changed her stance 'just because they support the Labour Party'? I certainly don't.

Mollygo

It wasn’t how long ago (that was easy enough to find out) that I found strange. It was the fact that he appointed someone unsure of or unwilling to say what a woman is -as minister for women and equality.
I think it reflects badly on his choice-unless it was deliberate and reflects what he really thinks.

From what he's previously spouted, this post was deliberate. An affront to biological women. What a slap in the face for us all. Happy to say I never voted for this.

Oh under no circumstances have I changed my mind because I wanted a labour government. If they go back down that line I will never vote for them again.