Labour gambling with public safety

Nightingale hospitals were built at break-neck speed, therefore why can't places of incarceration, albeit as a stop-gap measure? Or am I missing something? Quite where the prison staff are going to be found, I have no idea?

The years of austerity - reducing number of experience prison officers, probation officers, training schemes and privatisation of prisons have led to this crisis. Large numbers of people are incarcerated who are no threat to the public - Just Stop Oil protesters , women in for benefit fraud for example. I know of one man who got 3 years for a first time white collar offence banged up for 23 hours a day - his time could have been used far more productively - helping other offenders with literacy, other work in the community for example. Training schemes, education, psychiatric help and addiction therapy should be available in order to prevent further offending.

M0nica

No one isgoing to be releasing murderers, so tragicthough Zara Aleena's death was, it is irrelevant to a discussion about prison releases.

The Dutch managed to reduce their prison population by almost half by treaating the problems that got people into prison in the first place,; drug addiction, mental health problems, poor education. Their crime rate also fell.

That is what is wanted in the UK, not more prisons that just breed recidivists

Yes.

Throwing more and more people into jail without finding out WHY they offend in the first place, and why they keep on offending however many times they are caught, tried, sentenced and thrown back in, just means that with an exoanding population we have to build more prisons and employ more prison staff - all costing more money. Other countries spend money on the causes of re-offending and have far more success than we do in cutting down the number of re-offenders.

Nicenanny3

Have you no concern or sympathy with Zara Aleena's aunt. Zara Aleena was murdered by a man let out of jail on licence for 9 days, if he had not been released she would still be alive.

Was he imprisoned originally because he was violent? Or did he only show signs of violence after he was released and met his victim? There is a great difference.

I read that it is planned that prisoners for release early (after 40% of their sentence instead of 50% as previously) will be chosen from those who are not deemed to be a danger to anyone, and that they will be monitored, possibly by tagging.

There is literally no choice.

As Braverman herself tweeted a few days ago, “We’ve all got to start taking responsibility for what we did. And for the things we shamefully left undone. Like not building enough prisons.”

I think they should go ahead and release some prisoners, but choose very very carefully which ones.

Overcrowding of prisons is the one under discussion.

exactly Nice nanny....build more prisons. too many times weve been made aware of prisoners out on bail or released early, committing more crimes....

Thanks to posters who answered sparklefizz’ request for sources to support my statement that other Northern European/scandi countries get better results from alternatives to custody than we get from imprisoning more than those countries

eazybee

I think you will find that Labour is facing exactly the same problems as the Conservatives, and as they found there are no easy solutions.
So easy to criticise.

As a matter of interest, what 'same problems' will Labour be facing?

I think you will find that Labour is facing exactly the same problems as the Conservatives, and as they found there are no easy solutions.
So easy to criticise.

I think that you will find that the blame is emanating from the Tory MPs who have publicly admitted that they are entirely responsible for the complete shambles in the prison system.

Braverman being just one of them.

My point is that the probation service was in a mess before the Conservatives. Labour started the privatisation.

Please don't think I believe that the last government was any good. Totally opposite is true. An utter shambles and I was extremely happy that Labour won this time.

But surely we should live in the here and now. Labour look like they're actually up to this job.

To constantly say that the previous government are to blame for everything is a bit pointless. Especially when it's easy to find out that not everything that went wrong started under the Tories.

Rekarie

Whitewavemark2

I assume that the released prisoners will be monitored.

The trouble is that the Tories have also run down the probation service so badly that it is barely functioning.

And Labour started that as well, WWM2!

*In 2004, Tony Blair’s Labour government accepted a report that recommended what was called “greater contestability” using “providers of… probation from across the public, private or voluntary sectors”. In 2007, probation boards began to be transformed into probation trusts*

Did he cut funding, too?

A very significant cause of the deterioration of all public services was the swingeing cuts to the public sector, post 2010, by the tories, ostensibly for the'austerity' they claimed was needed to restore the UK economy, but really to implement their 'small state' ideology.

Most commentators seem to agree that it was Grayling's complete privatisation of the probation service that did the real damage...

Rekarie

Whitewavemark2

I assume that the released prisoners will be monitored.

The trouble is that the Tories have also run down the probation service so badly that it is barely functioning.

And Labour started that as well, WWM2!

*In 2004, Tony Blair’s Labour government accepted a report that recommended what was called “greater contestability” using “providers of… probation from across the public, private or voluntary sectors”. In 2007, probation boards began to be transformed into probation trusts*

I’m not sure if your point?

We are talking about the existential crises that the head of the civil service considered sufficiently urgent to be one of the first things that was brought to the new Prime ministers attention.

The reason it is in such an appalling state is because if the total failure on the part of the previous government. Their MPs have admitted that it was a complete failure on the Tories part.

Whitewavemark2

I assume that the released prisoners will be monitored.

The trouble is that the Tories have also run down the probation service so badly that it is barely functioning.

And Labour started that as well, WWM2!

In 2004, Tony Blair’s Labour government accepted a report that recommended what was called “greater contestability” using “providers of… probation from across the public, private or voluntary sectors”. In 2007, probation boards began to be transformed into probation trusts

I assume that the released prisoners will be monitored.

The trouble is that the Tories have also run down the probation service so badly that it is barely functioning.

LizzieDrip

What we’re seeing, unfolding in front of our eyes, is the culmination of 14 years of Conservative austerity and privatisation.

Well, not really. Tony Blair faced similar problems. But we seem to forget this. Or maybe just ignore it and hope nobody remembers.

There were riots, lots of articles about moral decline to be found if you care to look.

The Prime Minister (Blair) repeatedly told MPs today that he regretted having to release thousands of criminals early to ease the prison overcrowding crisis.

But, at his penultimate Commons question time, he said the action was necessary to free up space.

More than 25,000 criminals will be handed a "get out of jail free" card in a desperate attempt to solve the overcrowding crisis.

No one isgoing to be releasing murderers, so tragicthough Zara Aleena's death was, it is irrelevant to a discussion about prison releases.

The Dutch managed to reduce their prison population by almost half by treaating the problems that got people into prison in the first place,; drug addiction, mental health problems, poor education. Their crime rate also fell.

That is what is wanted in the UK, not more prisons that just breed recidivists

Grantanow

It's another Tory mess up and the Daily Wail is trying to blame Labour. If the Tories hadn't privatised the Probation Service and kowtowed to the 'hang em and flog em' brigade we might have had a penal system that rehabilitated prisoners rather than the useless system we have now. Many of those incarcerated could be educated and trained back into the workforce.

I think Starmer hinted at that for the future - so with luck we will get back to a system that concentrates on rehabilitation rather than throw away the key.

It's another Tory mess up and the Daily Wail is trying to blame Labour. If the Tories hadn't privatised the Probation Service and kowtowed to the 'hang em and flog em' brigade we might have had a penal system that rehabilitated prisoners rather than the useless system we have now. Many of those incarcerated could be educated and trained back into the workforce.

Sparklefizz

Iam64

To address one question raised by nicenanny, there are plans to build new prisons. Not because we need or aim to lock more people up but because some of our prisons aren’t fit for purpose.
We lock far too many people up. Other Northern European and Scandinavian countries imprison fewer, have good community sentences with the result their re-offending rates are less than ours.
Not complicated is it.

Which other countries? Do you have a source for this claim?

This was discussed and sources given on the other prison threads. You can google rates of imprisoment in Europe per head of population, rates of recidivism, rates of whole life sentences, what happens in prisons (ie programmes designed to reduce recidivism and so on) The Netherlands is a good comparison.

Norway has the lowest level of recidivism in the world, below is an interesting research article on the approach which is basically much more about making prison as much like life outside prison as possible which a focus on rehabilitation. This wouldn't go down well with those who see prison as purely a punishment but it seems to work effectively and would be cheaper in the long run than the endless cycle of reoffending that the UK has.

digitalcommons.coastal.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1032&context=bridges

Nicenanny3

Well Labour are talking about building a million plus new homes, why aren't they talking about building more prisons?

We have a huge extension to a prison near us that is in the process of being built.
It takes a lot of planning and public consultation to build a prison.
Perhaps you have a field at he bottom of your garden where the government could put a prison, overnight. Maximum security of course.

In this country we send more people to prison than any country in Europe - except Turkey! Not a thing to be proud of. You can even be sent to prison for not paying your council tax.

People are sent to prison for non violent first offences which should be dealt with by other means. We do not make sufficient use of community service in this country.