Starmer gives £84 Million to Africa and Middle East

foxie48

FGS overseas aid does not go into the pockets of govts, the bulk of it funds charities like MSF, Save the Children, Sightsavers, etc etc. It provides clean water, education, training for women so they can support their families. My niece has worked in the overseas charity sector for well over twenty years, one of her roles is to put together bids to fund the work they do. When the Conservatives reduced the spend on OA in 2020, it meant a cut in the services that the charity she currently works for and she was scrabbling round trying to fill the gap in funding by accessing OA from other countries. Her charity is focused on the health of children not a bomb or a gun is purchased!

That’s what you think! Corruption is rife overseas.

There are also well documented cases of staff abusing kids and vulnerable young women. It’s been going on for years.

Primrose53 Of course there's corruption, there's corruption in every country even in the UK! However, it is nowhere near as prevalent as you seem to think it is and the work that is done helps the lives of literally millions of people in some of the most desperately poor and disadvantaged parts of the world. If we want to stem the tide of migrants it is in our own interests to try improve the opportunities open to them in their own countries. It is clear from many of your posts that you don't think the same way as I do but please don't assume that I am less knowledgeable than you are about the situation.

One of the problems now is that fewer western NGOs are now allowed in many countries, the same applies to “missionaries” and other aid organizations.
I was involved with a group 5yrs ago, no western organizers now, local leaders just don’t have the training and resources to be effective. Hunger is a way of life now, extreme weather makes it even more difficult, they are lovely people it’s such a shame.

foxie48

Primrose53 Of course there's corruption, there's corruption in every country even in the UK! However, it is nowhere near as prevalent as you seem to think it is and the work that is done helps the lives of literally millions of people in some of the most desperately poor and disadvantaged parts of the world. If we want to stem the tide of migrants it is in our own interests to try improve the opportunities open to them in their own countries. It is clear from many of your posts that you don't think the same way as I do but please don't assume that I am less knowledgeable than you are about the situation.

Corruption in the UK is negligible compared to African countries, there is plenty of reading and evidence for this.
If overseas aid worked it would be a fine thing but Oxfam has been going for around 60 or more years alongside government money and these countries are just as bad if not worse than they were then.

That’s a sweeping statement Oreo, there is as much variation between African countries and the way they are governed and managed as there is between European ones.

Overseas aid works for every child who has some food, for every sick person who gets medical attention, for every woman who gets an education, for every young person who gets some training so they can support a family, for every person drinking clean water, for every child who has been treated for eye disease, for every human who has benefited from support funded by overseas aid. Oreo you seem only able to value things in your terms, that's because you are fortunate to have everything that supports life. Millions of people in this world don't have that and I am very happy for some of the money I pay in tax to make a difference to their lives.

I should have inserted the word ‘some’ before African countries but some are more outrageously corrupt than others it’s true.
It doesn’t alter that a lot of it is money down the drain.If western NGO’s were allowed to go in and manage things it would help but as David49 says, this is often blocked by African governments.You can draw your own conclusions for the reasons behind this.

It has long been said that the millions raised by Live Aid/BandAid never reached the people who it was meant for.

There have been unsubstantiated allegations that some money went to the Ethiopian government and was spent on weapons. Certainly most went to NGOs focused on famine relief and development, if you have evidence that this is not correct, please link your source. The allegations that I found were from unreliable sources.

Foxie, feeding programmes in a famine situation reaches those it can get access to it the pre famine situations that governments struggle to provide, rural populations are the last to get help.
ALL politicians help their own supporters/tribe first and have the backing of the army to do that, when you travel in Africa expect frequent police or army road blocks, they arent interested in tourists, it’s to remind the local hotheads to behave.
The welfare of local populations depends on resources being exploited, copper, diamond's, oil, whatever, if the country has few resources the population is much poorer.

David49 Getting famine relief etc to rural areas is often a challenge, my niece has worked in Darfur, Liberia and several other African countries. She's very interesting to talk to and having worked for a number of different International charities, she's very knowledgeable but also pragmatic, she certainly doesn't look through rose tinted glasses! When she was in Liberia (some years ago now) they operated strict protocols to ensure money didn't go missing or end up in the wrong hands, I always try to sit next to her at family lunches so I can hear about her latest project. These NGOs have vast experience and are certainly not naive about the challenges they face. Things do go wrong, of course, but it's totally ridiculous to suggest that most OA is siphoned off by corrupt people because it's not.

foxie48

Overseas aid works for every child who has some food, for every sick person who gets medical attention, for every woman who gets an education, for every young person who gets some training so they can support a family, for every person drinking clean water, for every child who has been treated for eye disease, for every human who has benefited from support funded by overseas aid. Oreo you seem only able to value things in your terms, that's because you are fortunate to have everything that supports life. Millions of people in this world don't have that and I am very happy for some of the money I pay in tax to make a difference to their lives.

Me too! Well said

Cossy

foxie48

Overseas aid works for every child who has some food, for every sick person who gets medical attention, for every woman who gets an education, for every young person who gets some training so they can support a family, for every person drinking clean water, for every child who has been treated for eye disease, for every human who has benefited from support funded by overseas aid. Oreo you seem only able to value things in your terms, that's because you are fortunate to have everything that supports life. Millions of people in this world don't have that and I am very happy for some of the money I pay in tax to make a difference to their lives.

Me too! Well said

I completely agree Foxie and really hope they do receive all that help..

pascal30

Cossy

foxie48

Overseas aid works for every child who has some food, for every sick person who gets medical attention, for every woman who gets an education, for every young person who gets some training so they can support a family, for every person drinking clean water, for every child who has been treated for eye disease, for every human who has benefited from support funded by overseas aid. Oreo you seem only able to value things in your terms, that's because you are fortunate to have everything that supports life. Millions of people in this world don't have that and I am very happy for some of the money I pay in tax to make a difference to their lives.

Me too! Well said

I completely agree Foxie and really hope they do receive all that help..

Me too!

Am sure that we all wish it to be true…

Btw foxie48 how I value things is of no concern to you, nor can you know anything about me.
A little less personal attack if you please.

choughdancer

pascal30

Cossy

foxie48

Overseas aid works for every child who has some food, for every sick person who gets medical attention, for every woman who gets an education, for every young person who gets some training so they can support a family, for every person drinking clean water, for every child who has been treated for eye disease, for every human who has benefited from support funded by overseas aid. Oreo you seem only able to value things in your terms, that's because you are fortunate to have everything that supports life. Millions of people in this world don't have that and I am very happy for some of the money I pay in tax to make a difference to their lives.

Me too! Well said

I completely agree Foxie and really hope they do receive all that help..

Me too!

Another me too!

I doubt any right minded person would mind a little of their taxes going to the desperately poor people who need it, but the problem is that only a small proportion will benefit in any way at all.
60 years of charitable giving and many more years probably of governments giving has barely made a dent in the lives of the Africans who need it, so we know it’s miss used.Not just the UK giving but of so many other countries too.

Another me too in response to foxie’s post.

Primrose - your reference to staff abusing women and children is of course accurate. Are you suggesting that’s a reason not to provide aid?
The sexual abuse and exploitation of women and children (largely) by men is a world wide scandal. Men who are sexually attracted to children target the vulnerable. They find work that gives them access to children. It’s another thing for those working in and managing over seas aid to worry about

Oreo

I doubt any right minded person would mind a little of their taxes going to the desperately poor people who need it, but the problem is that only a small proportion will benefit in any way at all.
60 years of charitable giving and many more years probably of governments giving has barely made a dent in the lives of the Africans who need it, so we know it’s miss used.Not just the UK giving but of so many other countries too.

Overseas aid can be given by countries as either grants or loans, the UK has usually given it as grants but in 2014 there was a move to give aid as loans, which end up crippling already very poor countries. If there's criticism to level with regard to OA it should be aimed at the countries "giving" it rather than the ones "receiving" it. Too frequently it's given to the wrong countries for the wrong reasons ie boosting trade or for political reasons leaving already very poor countries saddled with huge debt with donor countries receiving more in interest payments than the recipient has received in loans. There's a lot more to OA than most of us appreciate.

Below is an extract from a parliamentary report on the Conservative decision to cut OA aid from 0.7% to 0.5%, to me the numbers don't look "small", the whole report is worth reading.
lordslibrary.parliament.uk/uk-aid-spending-statistics-and-recent-developments/

" over nine million women and girls will not have access to contraception as a result of the cuts
11 million children under five and women will be at risk of malnutrition
nearly four million fewer girls will have access to a decent education"

I’m watching ch4 news on Gaza. It’s heart breaking

Iam64

I’m watching ch4 news on Gaza. It’s heart breaking

I've stopped posting about Gaza because I was sick of always having to defend myself from accusations of anti semitism or being pro Hamas. The situation there is dreadful. They have found polio in the water so the IDF is being vaccinated but what about the Palestinian people, especially the children? They clearly don't matter. At least the UK government is now sending aid but how easily it will get to the people who need it is anyone's guess. I honestly don't know how anyone feels that this is OK but you only have to read the posts on here to understand that we don't all have the same respect for human life or empathy for those who through no fault of their own are dealt a life hardly worth living.

foxie48

Iam64

I’m watching ch4 news on Gaza. It’s heart breaking

I've stopped posting about Gaza because I was sick of always having to defend myself from accusations of anti semitism or being pro Hamas. The situation there is dreadful. They have found polio in the water so the IDF is being vaccinated but what about the Palestinian people, especially the children? They clearly don't matter. At least the UK government is now sending aid but how easily it will get to the people who need it is anyone's guess. I honestly don't know how anyone feels that this is OK but you only have to read the posts on here to understand that we don't all have the same respect for human life or empathy for those who through no fault of their own are dealt a life hardly worth living.

So well put foxie48. I feel a bit as if I'm living on an island where we have improved our living conditions hugely over the last 100, 150 years. This has been as a result of luck, hard work, creativity, protest, and many other 'good' things. But it is also as a result of much of the wealth that built cities having come from our past Empire; having so much imported food and other goods from other countries where the conditions of work for many people fall well below the standard which would rightly be expected here.

That is why they are cheap. Those countries are also dealing with the emissions created by these industries. I am always surprised when people say that we are doing far better on cutting down to Net Zero that, say, China, when we import so much from there and thus are partly responsible!

This enables us to have a standard of living that is comparatively high.

We have healthcare free at the point of delivery, a democratic government, pensions, education (free at schools). None of it is perfect and much of it has been run down over the period of Conservative government, but I would not want to lose any of it, and feel hopeful that improvements will be made by our Labour government.

Sorry I'm waffling, but my main point is that we seem to want to pull up the drawbridge, raise walls, build barriers against others, just in case our standard of living fell a little. Foreign aid is essential not only to those in receipt of it, but for those giving it too!

Climate change and war between them will make areas of the world impossible to live in and create many more refugees in the future. Helping to make those areas better to live in, helping people to make a living, to feed, clothe and educate themselves is surely the minimum we need to do even if only to protect ourselves from the probability of far more demand for a share of our land.

I am a great believer in charity begins at home. Let us sort our own country's problems out first and then we can begin helping others.

HattieTopper

I am a great believer in charity begins at home. Let us sort our own country's problems out first and then we can begin helping others.

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