Junior doctors pay offer

As usual one party blames the other for being in a lot of debt due to the previous government.
What with labour paying the doctors a sum they wanted. Also, (the cost the increase in windmills etc so they have already spent the amount of debt that Labour complained about taking over

I would have liked to have seen a little lateral thinking here.
What about a cost free training with a clause ensuring a certain time to be spent I the NHS post foundation year.
I strongly suspect that their leaders have been playing a political game here , its been all to easy for Labour to come to an agreement

ronib

Has the state of the NHS improved and the dire conditions magically disappeared following on from the 22 per cent pay rise? I don’t think so….

Why would anyone think so?

David49

NotSpaghetti

I think a qualified doctor in the maxiofacial depth who is not yet a consultant (maybe they have enough) but has been practising for 11 years will not be overruled by an "experienced nurse", David!

I do hope not, anyway! 😱

No but a junior doctor in his first couple of years is watched very carefully?
I’m sure you know perfectly well that a doctor is termed Junior for the 1st 4 yrs then goes to speciality training and becomes a Registrar, so your 11 yrs is very wide of the mark!.

Specialty Registrars are still known as Junior Doctors.
It's quite an insulting term, really, for doctors with years of training.

11 years is not wide of the mark if you include medical training, in fact it is short.

David49

Whatever they are called Junior doctors are just that, they work under the supervision of an experienced doctor, their skills are may be very limited, an experienced nurse will often overrule a Junior doctor.

That said they deserve a decent wage for the hours they put in and it was right to settle the pay claim.

I doubt that a nurse would over-rule a Senior Registrar.

An experienced nurse might quietly suggest something but he/she would have more professionalism than to over-rule a Registrar in front of a patient.

Their skills are not limited, they are fully qualified doctors who may have been working in their speciality for many years, possibly ten, before going on to the Specialist Register then they may become Consultants.

NotSpaghetti

I think a qualified doctor in the maxiofacial depth who is not yet a consultant (maybe they have enough) but has been practising for 11 years will not be overruled by an "experienced nurse", David!

I do hope not, anyway! 😱

No but a junior doctor in his first couple of years is watched very carefully?
I’m sure you know perfectly well that a doctor is termed Junior for the 1st 4 yrs then goes to speciality training and becomes a Registrar, so your 11 yrs is very wide of the mark!.

I imagine that what mattered to the doctors and made the difference were that broad concerns about the NHS in terms of work conditions and patient concerns were taken on board, and doctors not just accused of greed.

Has the state of the NHS improved and the dire conditions magically disappeared following on from the 22 per cent pay rise? I don’t think so….

T in C.--- they should rebrand themselves as train
drivers to earn more salary

I think a qualified doctor in the maxiofacial depth who is not yet a consultant (maybe they have enough) but has been practising for 11 years will not be overruled by an "experienced nurse", David!

I do hope not, anyway! 😱

MayBee70

Visgir1

Well, the Times reports this pay increase was 1% above the offer the Tories offered, if they accept it? Then they will start another round of Strikes in 12 months, for more money. They are kindly giving the new Government 12 grace before they start again.
Am I surprised.. No!

I’m not actually sure it’s the amount of increase Labour has given the doctors that has resolved this but the way in which they conducted the negotiations. And future negotiations will be conducted in the same way. I think the doctors were exasperated by the way the last government were treating them.

I agree, it wasn't just about the money, and never was. The doctors were also concerned abut the state of the NHS and the dire conditions they were facing day inn day out for patients.

However little is able to be done, they must have felt they were dealing with politicians who were listening and sharing their concerns, not labelling them as the last government did as "anti patient"

Whatever they are called Junior doctors are just that, they work under the supervision of an experienced doctor, their skills are may be very limited, an experienced nurse will often overrule a Junior doctor.

That said they deserve a decent wage for the hours they put in and it was right to settle the pay claim.

Visgir1

Well, the Times reports this pay increase was 1% above the offer the Tories offered, if they accept it? Then they will start another round of Strikes in 12 months, for more money. They are kindly giving the new Government 12 grace before they start again.
Am I surprised.. No!

I’m not actually sure it’s the amount of increase Labour has given the doctors that has resolved this but the way in which they conducted the negotiations. And future negotiations will be conducted in the same way. I think the doctors were exasperated by the way the last government were treating them.

I'm glad if it's been agreed, it will put many people's minds at rest but it does make me wonder what other groups will now demand similar increases.

Well, the Times reports this pay increase was 1% above the offer the Tories offered, if they accept it? Then they will start another round of Strikes in 12 months, for more money. They are kindly giving the new Government 12 grace before they start again.
Am I surprised.. No!

There is a winter fuel thread.

Just saying.

maddyone to do a comparison you have to look at trends? I’m not sure how else you’d monitor what’s happening, that’s why the figures are produced.

It’s absolutely pointless looking up how many died from cold when pensioners were receiving the winter fuel allowance, you need to watch how many die now it’s been removed. And in particular, during the last couple of years, pensioners received enhanced winter fuel allowances plus cost of living extra payments.
Does anyone really think Labour are good for pensioners?

We will, Primrose53, sure as night follows day.

Casdon

I like to know about these things, so I looked it up. Surprisingly few people have hypothermia identified as a contributory factor in their death. In only one year were there more than 50 cases.
www.ons.gov.uk/redir/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJpbmRleCI6NywicGFnZVNpemUiOjEwLCJwYWdlIjo2LCJ1cmkiOiIvYWJvdXR1cy90cmFuc3BhcmVuY3lhbmRnb3Zlcm5hbmNlL2ZyZWVkb21vZmluZm9ybWF0aW9uZm9pL2RlYXRoc2Zyb21oeXBvdGhlcm1pYTIwMTl0bzIwMjMiLCJsaXN0VHlwZSI6InB1Ymxpc2hlZHJlcXVlc3RzIn0.uKFPdq7IYuuxNcx0NxzVyQNdUgrjDj-3pNUb9apQCxc

Just wait and see what this winter brings. 😉

I believe it is very misleading

It is and it seems to be a fairly recent change.

And those just out of medical school are actually called Foundation Doctors. Then they are called Registrar as they begin training for a specialty, and finally they become a Senior Registrar, and yet they are all junior doctors, because all doctors who are not yet a Consultant/GP are junior doctors.
I believe it is very misleading.

Ilovecheese

Weren't they called "housemen" and then "registrar" before becoming consultants.

The hospital doctor I saw the other week introduced himself as a registrar.
I knew what that meant and think 'junior doctor' is a misnomer for all except those just out of medical school.

I like to know about these things, so I looked it up. Surprisingly few people have hypothermia identified as a contributory factor in their death. In only one year were there more than 50 cases.
www.ons.gov.uk/redir/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJpbmRleCI6NywicGFnZVNpemUiOjEwLCJwYWdlIjo2LCJ1cmkiOiIvYWJvdXR1cy90cmFuc3BhcmVuY3lhbmRnb3Zlcm5hbmNlL2ZyZWVkb21vZmluZm9ybWF0aW9uZm9pL2RlYXRoc2Zyb21oeXBvdGhlcm1pYTIwMTl0bzIwMjMiLCJsaXN0VHlwZSI6InB1Ymxpc2hlZHJlcXVlc3RzIn0.uKFPdq7IYuuxNcx0NxzVyQNdUgrjDj-3pNUb9apQCxc

Unfortunately I think you’re right Primrose, because some pensioners will be afraid to put on their heating and this will certainly lead to a rise in pensioner deaths and pensioner illnesses. However that is not the fault of the doctors, but of the government who are removing the WFA from all pensioners not on pension credit, some of whom will be unable to afford heating costs.