Junior doctors pay offer

My grandson graduates as a doctor this year after many years of training and for his first year out as a qualified doctor he will be called an intern attached to various hospitals. The pay for his level is around $80,000, his first pay year after racking up a huge debt for his training ( 7 years for him) Then if he specialises another 2 or 3 years full time on the job training. You’d have to really want to do it !

I’m also pleased for the doctors, although I still think it insufficient. Their pay dropped by 35%, not 22%. It is not good enough to allow the pay of doctors to erode in value and think it acceptable.

Incidentally doctors in training basically means student doctors. They cease being student doctors after they’ve finished their 5/6 year medical degree. Then they are fully recognised as doctors. They then do two years in a hospital working on a variety of rotations in order to gain experience. These years are called F1 and F2 (Foundation Doctors.) They are then free to take up a training post in the specialty of their choice. Some training posts last three years, others six or seven years. These posts are Registrar
posts. Some doctors spend some time working in hospital in a variety of short term placements whilst deciding which specialty they wish to follow.

Interesting: salary for a junior doctor
Foundation year one (FY1): Approximately £28,808 per year.
Specialty training (ST) at years six to eight: £56,077 per year.
Specialist grade doctor: £83,945 to £92,275 per year.

How long does the tern junior doctor apply?
A pay rise of between 8.1% and 10.3% as well as a backdated 4.05% increase for 2023-24 on the above salaries seems rather generous to me.
A junior Doctor sent me home from A & E diagnosing a tension headache; four days later my GP correctly identified my headache as a sub-arachnoid haemorrhage and I was admitted to hospital.
Some years later another junior doctor at the same A &E dept discharged me as needing no further treatment, without seeing me; 5 hours later the Special Nurse Practitioner identified a broken wrist. So I am not altogether convinced that Junior Doctors are worthy of this enormous pay rise.

THE out-flow

Ilovecheese

Nothing like enough to stop them going somewhere that pays more. As usual, we rely on their goodwill.

Indeed. I do hope the pay raise helps stem tho out-flow.

I’m relieved this dispute has been settled

Some of them are still "houseman" - junior house officer & then senior house officer. When a bit more experience in chosen specialty & having decided not to go for GP training but to be a hospital doctor, then "registrar" - again junior & senior. Some of the senior reg's are very experienced & very able surgeons in their specialty but they stay as "junior doctor" until they've passed their consultant requirements / exams AND a consultant post in their specialty (& depending on ties,locality) becomes available. I think it's the less experienced(JHO, SHO) that have the ludicrously!!! low salaries.

Chocolatelovinggran

I recall, I think, that in the dark past, my BIL and his peers were known as a Houseman in their first year or so: men and women!
Does anyone else remember this?
I like " resident doctor" .

I remember

ronib

So we now know that a resident doctor hasn’t quite completed training to become a full consultant/specialist? It’s worth noting if you are being treated for a serious complaint.

Yes, it's always best to see the registrar if you actually need a procedure done.

Tongue only half in cheek. The disrespect towards specialist registrars (SpRs) in particular during the pay crisis from the government's side was utterly disgraceful. These are people with seven, eight, or more, years in specialist practice.

Learnt.

Ilovecheese

Weren't they called "housemen" and then "registrar" before becoming consultants.

Yes they were. Certainly in my day. They may have basic knowledge, but often need to call on the Senior Registrar on call for guidance and help. A Dr's training never ceases, even at Consultant level. New research, new diagnostics have to be ,earned.

Weren't they called "housemen" and then "registrar" before becoming consultants.

I recall, I think, that in the dark past, my BIL and his peers were known as a Houseman in their first year or so: men and women!
Does anyone else remember this?
I like " resident doctor" .

Am with ronib on this, they have always been called Junior Doctors ( as opposed to Senior Doctors) why complicate things further?

I think I understand my version better … just add specialist but not quite yet in your head if not on paper!

So we now know that a resident doctor hasn’t quite completed training to become a full consultant/specialist? It’s worth noting if you are being treated for a serious complaint.

ronib

Change name to what Wyllow3 ? Still in training before fully qualified in a chosen specialism.
How about heart specialist but not quite yet?

Do keep up

The motion was passed last month.

The new term for them is "resident doctor". Voted for by the BMA. Not before time, I think.

ronib

Change name to what Wyllow3 ? Still in training before fully qualified in a chosen specialism.
How about heart specialist but not quite yet?

I'm still trying to think of one!

MayBee70

Isn’t it about time they were no longer called junior doctors which makes them sound as though they just stand around learning things from more experienced doctors, not actually saving people’s lives?

I think this would be a very good move; it is all to easy to think junior means still in training.

Change name to what Wyllow3 ? Still in training before fully qualified in a chosen specialism.
How about heart specialist but not quite yet?

Good idea to change the name. They have ceased being medical students. Fair point HPQ.

HPQ Victoria Atkins was correct. Refer to BMA if you’re unsure.

MayBee70

Isn’t it about time they were no longer called junior doctors which makes them sound as though they just stand around learning things from more experienced doctors, not actually saving people’s lives?

Yes, it is not an indication of their experience or years of service. The Health Minister under the Tory government (Victoria Atkins), referred to junior doctors as 'doctors in training' a fair indication that she had no idea what she was talking about.