Rachel Reeves has announced that winter fuel payments will only be paid to those on Pension Credit.nsion Credit

If it had been the Tories knocking off the heating allowance I bet you would all have plenty to gripe about. Probably took lt anyway- even though you don’t agree with it & put in your back sack too sweet

LizzieDrip

^This forum is of course an echo chamber of a particular demographic. It is certainly not representative of the country at large^

WW you can say that again!

Personally, I find this thread, and many current News & Politics threads, utterly depressing and soul destroying.

It’s impossible to conduct a rational debate in an echo chamber.

I hardly contribute any more now as I wouldn’t like to meet some of these people in real life - am happy to leave them, and their views, to each other.

No doubt, I’ll be criticised for saying this, and I suppose they wouldn’t like to meet me IRL either - fair enough🤷‍♀️

Yes it is soul destroying-so much bitterness, anger so I hope it isn’t representative.

I agree, Callistemon, and don’t think I have said otherwise, have I? I have definitely argued against stereotyping generations before now, but not on this thread. The two groups I referenced are my friends and family and the GN demographic, in response to a PP on the subject.

I have said more than once on this thread that I completely understand people being worried about the WFA being withdrawn. Just as I have argued against other benefits being cut by the Tories to howls of derision about how people shouldn’t have children they can’t afford and how healthy people feign illness and disability to claim benefits. It seems to me (although I haven’t cross-tabulated anyone’s posts) that there is overlap between those who are happy to see cuts in benefits when they apply to others and are Tory measures and those who complain bitterly when cuts do affect them and have been brought in by Labour. That’s what I am saying.

Perhaps it is worth mentioning that Winter Fuel Payments were introduced by a Labour Government in 1997 as a non-means tested benefit to help older people cope with the cost of heating their homes in winter.

Since then the cost of fuel has spiralled.

Introduced by a Labour Government, continued by Tory and Coalition Governments, now to be taken away by a Labour Government.

Rosie51

Mollygo

Good idea if they cut down on MP’s extras, like the HoC food and drinks, etc.

I know someone who works in the HoC. The subsidy the MPs enjoy, not just on food, but also on alcohol is unbelievable. Snouts in the trough applies to them all sad to say. Just one honourable one to be whistleblower might wake them all up to their immense privilege. Who else gets subsidised alcohol at their place of work and even during working hours?

Who else gets subsidised alcohol at their place of work and even during working hours?

Who else even consumes alcohol at their place of work?

Alcohol is not a necessity for MPs - they need to eat, but they do not need to drink.

If they must, then it should come out of their own pockets.

It would not save much money (well - who knows, judging by the belligerent and bellicose behaviour of some which might be alcohol-fuelled), but the principle is wrong.

Well said Doodledog!

It is definitely not representative of my friends and family (of any age or income group).

I hadn't realised just how far apart the two groups are until people on here began to realise that they stand to lose money under a Labour government instead of the poor losing money under the Tories. At that point the tone completely changed. People openly boasting about protecting their assets, horrified at the thought of millionaires losing a few pounds and so on in the most unpleasant manner imaginable.

And yes, I know that the withdrawal of the WFA will affect those without money more than those with it, but I find it ironic that it is the very people who supported Tory cuts to benefits who are complaining about this, before we have even heard the budget. It's easy to think it is just Labour-bashing, as it is so dissonant.

Mollygo

Good idea if they cut down on MP’s extras, like the HoC food and drinks, etc.

I know someone who works in the HoC. The subsidy the MPs enjoy, not just on food, but also on alcohol is unbelievable. Snouts in the trough applies to them all sad to say. Just one honourable one to be whistleblower might wake them all up to their immense privilege. Who else gets subsidised alcohol at their place of work and even during working hours?

Doodledog

It is definitely not representative of my friends and family (of any age or income group).

I hadn't realised just how far apart the two groups are until people on here began to realise that they stand to lose money under a Labour government instead of the poor losing money under the Tories. At that point the tone completely changed. People openly boasting about protecting their assets, horrified at the thought of millionaires losing a few pounds and so on in the most unpleasant manner imaginable.

And yes, I know that the withdrawal of the WFA will affect those without money more than those with it, but I find it ironic that it is the very people who supported Tory cuts to benefits who are complaining about this, before we have even heard the budget. It's easy to think it is just Labour-bashing, as it is so dissonant.

🤔

Most posters seem to be concerned about those who are just above the limit for receiving Pension credit because they might not receive a full old State Pension and they have a tiny occupational pension.
They will generally be much older people, perhaps single for whatever reason, less fit and unable to go out and very worried indeed about how this is going to affect them.

I think groups such as the Intergenerational Foundation have stirred up discord between older and younger generations.

LizzieDrip

^I rarely come across the level of bitterness and bile in ‘real life’ that I’ve seen on here lately^

Same Doodledog

Yes and it isn’t all one way either.

Good idea if they cut down on MP’s extras, like the HoC food and drinks, etc.

Oreo

janeainsworth

The U.K. State Pension is about the lowest in Europe, not just in absolute value but also relative to the cost of living.
The WFA is/was part of the package.
Labour could have chosen to tax the energy companies to fund their spending plans but they chose to take from older people, many of whom don’t have private or occupational pensions & for whom the loss of the WFA will be significant.
There’s also an argument for making some benefits (like Child Benefit used to be) universal, to foster a feeling of inclusiveness & being part of society.
Instead, the Government has chosen to increase division between those who contribute to benefits & those who receive them.

Exactly👏🏻👏🏻

Well said, janeainsworth.

Applying for certain allowances and government help is like jumping through a series of burning hoops.

Even trying to find out if you are receiving the correct amount of pension is difficult for older pensioners. The advice online is "Seek specialist advice". 🤔

I can see that people are worried and I fully understand why. I do not support means-tests and never will.

I’m not talking about this subject in isolation when I say ‘bitterness and bile’. I am talking about the general tone of the site, the nastiness and sniping. The twisting of words and false accusations.

I hoped it would calm down after the election, but it hasn’t.

janeainsworth

The U.K. State Pension is about the lowest in Europe, not just in absolute value but also relative to the cost of living.
The WFA is/was part of the package.
Labour could have chosen to tax the energy companies to fund their spending plans but they chose to take from older people, many of whom don’t have private or occupational pensions & for whom the loss of the WFA will be significant.
There’s also an argument for making some benefits (like Child Benefit used to be) universal, to foster a feeling of inclusiveness & being part of society.
Instead, the Government has chosen to increase division between those who contribute to benefits & those who receive them.

Exactly👏🏻👏🏻

What’s the matter with some of you people? Can’t you see that many of us are worried by the withdrawal of the WFA, I’m not of the age to get it, but Mum is and now she’s upset as the money really helped and it’s hard enough to get her to put the heating on anyway.We will help her out but as low paid workers often have to juggle our money and bills as it is.There are so many pensioners out there who don’t qualify for benefits and this will hit them hard make no mistake about that.To just take the WFA away with no phased outcome is cruel and I know exactly what people would say had the Tories done this.
Who cares what young or middleaged people think about pensioners, I expect selfishness but if they live long enough they’ll be old themselves one day.

Goodness, me neither.

Yes, GN has certainly changed from what it was like years ago.

Me too.

I rarely come across the level of bitterness and bile in ‘real life’ that I’ve seen on here lately

Same Doodledog

Callistemon213

^And yes, I know that the withdrawal of the WFA will affect those without money more than those with it, but I find it ironic that it is the very people who supported Tory cuts to benefits who are complaining about this^

Which same people? On GN or generally?🤔

On here. As I say, I rarely come across the level of bitterness and bile in ‘real life’ that I’ve seen on here lately.

Callistemon213

^It is definitely not representative of my friends and family (of any age or income group)^

What, younger people being resentful of older pensioners?

Certainly younger members of my family are much kinder and more supportive than those portrayed as resentful of older, supposedly 'wealthy' pensioners.

Eh?

The GN demographic is not younger people being resentful of older ones.

What I said was that the current GN demographic is not representative of my friends and family. Which it's not. It seems to have changed over the past month or so.

I didn't bring resentment of pensioners into it - the young people I know don't fall for the generalisations about generations, and I didn't say they did.

Over the past week or so I have often been accused of saying things I really didn't - even when I have made a point of spelling out that I am not excusing paedophiles, or justifying the withdrawal of the WFA, or other things I forget. What's going on?

Yes, I think it matters, because those issues which affect the biggest parts of the population will determine how any government is perceived by the electorate as a whole

Casdon plus older people are statistically less likely than other age groups to vote Labour, so less likely to have as much influence over Labour’s policy.

If you cant cope with different views that's up to you I suppose. I

This forum is of course an echo chamber of a particular demographic. It is certainly not representative of the country at large

WW you can say that again!

Personally, I find this thread, and many current News & Politics threads, utterly depressing and soul destroying.

It’s impossible to conduct a rational debate in an echo chamber.

I hardly contribute any more now as I wouldn’t like to meet some of these people in real life - am happy to leave them, and their views, to each other.

No doubt, I’ll be criticised for saying this, and I suppose they wouldn’t like to meet me IRL either - fair enough🤷‍♀️

Mollygo

WWM2 you thought it important enough to post about before the budget, so why wouldn’t people comment about it before the budget especially if it affects them, or even, *if they’ll be all right without it?*

Sorry? I’m being dim here I’m not sure what you are alluding to?

SKY news is reporting that Rachel Reeves has revealed that there will be tax rises in the autumn budget…

Galaxy

Is being representative of the country at large now a good thing? Because it wasnt when Johnson was voted in, or when Brexit happened etc.

Yes, I think it matters, because those issues which affect the biggest parts of the population will determine how any government is perceived by the electorate as a whole.