Boxer forces female competitor to quit at the Olympic games [Title edited by GNHQ at poster's request]

I like that women can be factual and unemotional

Now, I don’t think this person is what’s known as ‘transgender’ ( which to me means dressing up as the opposite sex), but I’m sure I read that they have a chromosomal abnormality which gives XY chromosomes, but they were designated female at birth. I did see pictures of a wee girl of about 5 or 6 which they claimed was her.
Even so, I think it should have been obvious that it wasn’t a fair fight. Don’t they have weight categories?

Yes I understand the issues grannygravy but not trans. To be honest I dont pretend men can be women so I try if possible not to use the term transwomen. When I am talking about men and women I am referring to sex. This sounds to me like dsd, and yes from the information we have CS has a condition which only impacts males.
To be honest lizzie I completely understand why people are angry, if you have a group pretending that men can be women, etc etc and who do access womens spaces it is easy to think this is more of that.

Good post Beverley and as you've posted Semanya has fathered two children.

Well there you go. You’re obviously an expert on the subject so I’ll bow to your superior knowledge.

But do try not to be so offensive with your comments.

Maggiemaybe

If I understand the situation, and as others have said, these boxers aren’t transgender women or people self-identifying as women. Rather women who were identified as female at birth who have now failed gender tests because they have been found to have y chromosomes/high testosterone levels. As happened with the runner Caster Semenya, who has an intersex condition.

I agree that they can’t in all fairness compete against other women on a level playing field, but I do have a lot of sympathy for them. It must be devastating to get this diagnosis, and not to be able to compete in the sport you love. And of course they get a lot of grief and abuse online.

But I still think the decision of the Olympic Committee to allow the boxers to take part is very wrong.

You are incorrect.
There is no such thing as an “intersex condition” - there are around 40 DSDs which are genetic conditions and properly called ‘disorders of sexual development.’

ALL humans born with DSD, representing only a tiny fraction of less than 1/2% of the population are either male or female. Many people with DSDs don't even realise it. These people are not some kind of “hermaphrodite” with genitalia of both sexes. DSDs are sex specific. Many DSDs do not cause ‘ambiguous’ external genitalia and can cause a number of other health issues.

The so called “trans” lobby jumped on the fact that a tiny % of humans have DSDs in order to scaffold their incredibly fragile argument that it is possible to “transition” from one sex to the other. It isn't.

Every single human alive today as well as all those who have ever lived on planet earth was either male or female. Humans have two legs - you wouldn't say that a baby born with a birth defect and only one lower limb wasn't human would you? Just so with people who have DSDs. Incidentally, most people with DSDs find it incredibly offensive to be “bundled in” with the TQ mob - their condition has nothing to do with sexuality or the perversion of some males who like to identify as something they're not.

For the record, Semanya is male - he has fathered two children with his male testicles!

I have no sympathy for them, my sympathy is for the female boxers who have devoted years of training to compete at the Olympics and have no chance of winning because they're having to fight men.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202408/medium-997431-img-0183.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202408/medium-981187-img-0182.png

LizzieDrip and Galaxy

The Algerian boxer failed two hormone tests and is therefore forbidden to box in the female category by the IBO, as did the boxer due to compete tomorrow.

In this case not trans. I am pretty sure

Galaxy your research appears to be falling on deaf ears🤷‍♀️

If I understand the situation, and as others have said, these boxers aren’t transgender women or people self-identifying as women. Rather women who were identified as female at birth who have now failed gender tests because they have been found to have y chromosomes/high testosterone levels. As happened with the runner Caster Semenya, who has an intersex condition.

I agree that they can’t in all fairness compete against other women on a level playing field, but I do have a lot of sympathy for them. It must be devastating to get this diagnosis, and not to be able to compete in the sport you love. And of course they get a lot of grief and abuse online.

But I still think the decision of the Olympic Committee to allow the boxers to take part is very wrong.

ExDancer

I must have been very gently reared, but I need to know ..... do these trans women still have their male genitalia?
This is a serious question

Almost all of these men who identify as women do retain their own genitalia - they just say they're “trans” to get all the benefits that brings without doing anything as scary as chopping their bits off! Around 80% of them don't even take hormones. If you look you can find many pictures of such men with beards - including the ones at the Olympic torch ceremony and the opening ceremony.

Even if external genitalia is removed & hormones are taken, these men still have the lung and heart capacity and musculature of males and the physical advantages that come along with that.

We can all help my making our views known and standing up for women and girls. Refusing to use the term ‘woman’ to refer to these misogynistic men is a good start! These men pose very real dangers to women and girls and to the safeguarding of children.

Indeed it is a very sad state for women in sport and I do hope the French Olympic Committee will rethink the issue.

I have been looking at other countries press for statements. The following two I think were strange.

Numerama says, Only one statement from Russia
A more serious track can be explored: Imane Khelif could be affected by polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), a hormonal disease that affects women of childbearing age. Women affected by this syndrome are affected by hyperandrogenesis, which results in excessive testosterone production.

And there is the outcry from Algeria.
The Algerian Olympic and Sports Committee has "firmly condemned the false propaganda and immoral behaviour towards our champion, Imane Khelif, of some foreign media. Such attacks on her person are totally unethical, especially since she is preparing for the most important event of her sporting career, namely the Olympic Games".

Sometimes the dark side is good Jane .

Easy way for a trans to keep cheating Boz.

In this case not trans. I am pretty sure.

This person is not a trans woman. This person has XY chromosomes, and from what I understand presents similarly to Caster Semenya, but has very high levels of testosterone and is XY.
There is a similar person boxing another woman tomorrow. Both of these people were barred from boxing in a women's competition by the IBO, and that organisation has given a statement explaining why both athletes were banned from that competition. The IBO have no say with the IOC.

It is also a very easy way for a trans to keep winning. N'est-ce pas?

apparently it is illegal in boxing to put a male against a female according to our PCC who is on local facebook with lots of agreement from others

I went to the dark side, sorry

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13687839/Sports-scientists-Olympics-biological-males-womens-boxing-controversy.html

So the reason this is allowed is because at least since 1970 it's been allowed to have one's chosen gender on one's passport instead of one's biological sex and these boxers passports say they are female.

Who'd have thought that this ruling would have enabled men to compete against women in the boxing ring at the Olympic games, or at any other sporting event.

This brings to my mind the camel's nose metaphor where permitting something small and seemingly innocuous opens the door for something much larger and clearly undesirable.

When, oh when, will they check whether the “woman” is XX or XY?

In the “old days” (ask Mary Peters), they used to have very intimate examinations to establish the sex - whatever the gender!

It’s shocking isn’t it? I can’t understand why this is allowed and wish female boxers and any other sportswomen would refuse to engage with them.It would soon change things around.

ExDancer

I must have been very gently reared, but I need to know ..... do these trans women still have their male genitalia?
This is a serious question

If they’ve fully transitioned, then no they don’t have male genitalia. They have surgery to remove their genitalia and a vagina formed . I work with a TW and she is still taking female hormones even though she transitioned many years ago .

I think it’s disgraceful. She quit after 45 seconds. She could have been very badly hurt. Despicable.

Actually I have looked into it and I dont think they are trans, that would be highly unusual in Algeria and I think illegal. So I think there is something more complex going on. Why do they not do sex testing, it's a cheek swab. It's not invasive.

Smileless2012

There was a brief mention on the BBC's lunch time news but it was said that the Algerian boxer had been cleared to compete while making no mention of the fact that he's a trans woman .

Well that's the BBC for you. Utter tripe.

ExDancer

I must have been very gently reared, but I need to know ..... do these trans women still have their male genitalia?
This is a serious question

Some do, some don't. ExDancer The surgery required is a long and delicate process, and physical recovery is painful. (A friend used to be a theatre nurse and told me that she admired the courage of these patients, who were so desperate to have the operation that they hardly ever complained about the pain and discomfort it cost them)

Once it was possible to legally define themselves as the opposite sex without surgery, many avoided having the surgery and had hormone treatment instead - or just self-identified without making any changes at all, surgical or hormonal.

However, if they had already gone through puberty with natural male hormones their muscle mass would have developed in the male pattern, So they would still have the muscles, strength and body shape of a man, whatever was on their (altered) passports. If they self-identified without surgery they would still have their male genitals too.