Boxer forces female competitor to quit at the Olympic games [Title edited by GNHQ at poster's request]

Aveline

Well the cheat has won a gold medal. IOC should hang their heads in shame at their total failure of governance.

Agree!

VioletSky

Shouldn't this thread be taken down? It is misleading repeatedly calling a biological woman a man...

He is a biological MAN

I'm very sorry someone is 'suffering a bit' but I'm sorrier still for all the girls and young women who have worked so hard to get where they are only to lose to biological men. No point in womens sport at all if this sort of thing is allowed to persist.

Why do you feel the need to make that comment?

Algeria of course.

ExDancer

I heard an interesting theory yesterday, that the whole thing was a malicious rumour started by the female Italian boxer - that the Algerian had in fact been born female with undefined genitals, and had been raised, mistakenly, as a boy.

I’m sure babies with non typical genitals are recorded wrongly especially in developing countries like Morroco there is no alternative.

In cattle there is a well known variation called a “Freemartin” which is a female calf born as twin to a male, the male hormones are dominant, the calf is female externally but has no reproductive system and develops as a male.

Common in cattle, rare in other mammals, it has been recorded in most species. In most cases it goes unnoticed, dismissed as a non breeding female with no further investigation.

A number of men have lost to women when transwomen were more widely allowed into female sports (I know this person is not trans I am using the example of males in female sport) You dont ignore categories because someone loses sometimes.

Cossy she has lost to 9 other women and one was an Irish boxer
You can’t actually call someone a cheat if they are there fair and square I started out thinking like you Avaline but the more
I ve read and the more I ve looked into it the more I m moving towards feeling sorry for her
The Italian boxer choose not to fight her she didn’t have to pull out no one else has I watched her in one match but didn’t rate her that much it wasn’t as slick or as one sided a match as I expected it to be
It was against a Hungarian girl
I m still not sure but seeing as she is getting such a mixed reception a lot of hate and nastiness it can’t be doing her spirit any good

Having previously failed a test and been disqualified ExDancer, I fail to see how this issue could be down to a malicious rumour.

I heard an interesting theory yesterday, that the whole thing was a malicious rumour started by the female Italian boxer - that the Algerian had in fact been born female with undefined genitals, and had been raised, mistakenly, as a boy.

x.com/FondOfBeetles/status/1821903707635618276

Twitter thread by a developmental biologist. Charts the history of sex testing. Who'd have thought it started with worms?

This is an interesting article on the difficulty on deciding if a person is male or female.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crlr8gp813ko

Aveline

Well the cheat has won a gold medal. IOC should hang their heads in shame at their total failure of governance.

“Cheat” seems to imply some form of deliberate deception.

It’s my understanding that this boxer and her family are convinced she is biological woman.

This boxers has lost matches in other competitions to women, I could understand it more if every match this boxer competed in was won by a country mile.

Well the cheat has won a gold medal. IOC should hang their heads in shame at their total failure of governance.

Shouldn't this thread be taken down? It is misleading repeatedly calling a biological woman a man...

🤞🤞This is the nearest I can get to the crossed fingers the brave women boxers have used in the Olympics. I am with them 100%.

I ran this by DD today as she has spent the last 30 years working with DNA and genetics She said on the face of it anyone with XY chromosomes is male, but the whole subject is very complicated. We agreed that they need to come up with a decisive test that could be used across all sports and would be acceptable to everyone.

Even this title's not right The boxer (meaning The Algerian ) didn’t force the Italian to quit she made that decision herself

Thank you for amending the title GNHQ .

Sorry Rosie51 I was not trying to bait you I was trying to show that there is no perfect test to say that a person is male or female. We will have to settle for a compromise. At the moment I think the compromise is to much in favour of allowing people to be female.

I think I got sucked in to this partly by the title (re trans etc) but the more I read and the more I think about it this person has got a pretty difficult life they are not really able to prove anything if I m reading correctly. I do believe the Italian lady was wrong to refuse to fight and wrong to refuse to shake their hand ( she has apologised) I watched the next fight with the Hungarian girl and didn’t feel Khalif fought that well although they were declared the winner.
What’s the answer well it’s surely that every person entering the Olympics has to have a one off test and only then can they perform in which ever category their test results put them in
Men and women all have the same test taken by an independent medical body

Quote Aveline Sun 04-Aug-24 16:57:49
'Of no consequence'! Really?
Add comment | Report | Private message | Quote DamaskRose Sun 04-Aug-24 17:14:18
“Of no consequence” - do you mean in any sport??
Add comment | Report | Private message | Quote Galaxy Sun 04-Aug-24 17:21:22
I think he means that the test itself should be carried out as it is of no consequence as they are tested for various reasons anyway.

All athletes are regularly tested to stop them using unapproved drugs, if a female has raised testosterone or any other hormone it has to be investigated.
Some babies are misrecorded because they have non typical genitals, although they appear female they develop as a male, that does not mean they should be allowed to compete in female competitions.

Jackiest

Rosie51

Yes I am happy to accept that. So to take part as a female you have to have an ovary that produces an egg. No! Please read what I posted. You have to be of the type of body that is organised, or should be organised to produce ova. If you are born without ovaries, or your ovaries don't function you are still female if you are XX. Having internal testes that may or may not produce sperm does not a woman make. It's almost like any male with a defect can be a woman. Women are not "lesser men".

So is it that your chromosomes have to be XX that we test for?

You deliberately replied saying something I had made clear did not apply, so I'm not going to keep responding to your obvious, but trying to be subtle, baiting.

Have it your way, there's absolutely no way to tell males from females. There's no point having a female category since there's no way of telling who that would encompass. Won't just be the XXs who will suffer but also the XY with 5ard, not forgetting the transwomen with XY and no DSD. The men who always competed against other men won't be affected so that's fine!

Rosie51

^Yes I am happy to accept that. So to take part as a female you have to have an ovary that produces an egg.^ No! Please read what I posted. You have to be of the type of body that is organised, or should be organised to produce ova. If you are born without ovaries, or your ovaries don't function you are still female if you are XX. Having internal testes that may or may not produce sperm does not a woman make. It's almost like any male with a defect can be a woman. Women are not "lesser men".

So is it that your chromosomes have to be XX that we test for?

Yes I am happy to accept that. So to take part as a female you have to have an ovary that produces an egg. No! Please read what I posted. You have to be of the type of body that is organised, or should be organised to produce ova. If you are born without ovaries, or your ovaries don't function you are still female if you are XX. Having internal testes that may or may not produce sperm does not a woman make. It's almost like any male with a defect can be a woman. Women are not "lesser men".