Boxer forces female competitor to quit at the Olympic games [Title edited by GNHQ at poster's request]

Rosie51

Jackiest

Yoginimeisje

Jackiest

Before you can test for someone being female you have to define what female is. I have just tried googling a definition of female and it comes up with half a dozen different definitions. Chromosomes, hormones, testosterone, unless everyone can agree on a definition there will always be controversy.

Really you can't be serious!

Yes. What is your definition? Everyone thinks it is obvious and so did I but when I start thinking about it I am not sure any more.

In every sexually dimorphic group, the male is defined as the one organised to provide the small gamete, the female is the one organised to provide the large gamete. Sometimes nature goes wrong and that function isn't working for that individual but that doesn't negate the principal. It's strange how we accept this definition for every other mammal in creation but suddenly when it comes to humans 'feelings', 'being raised as' and 'passports' suddenly are more important.

Yes I am happy to accept that. So to take part as a female you have to have an ovary that produces an egg.

Jackiest

Yoginimeisje

Jackiest

Before you can test for someone being female you have to define what female is. I have just tried googling a definition of female and it comes up with half a dozen different definitions. Chromosomes, hormones, testosterone, unless everyone can agree on a definition there will always be controversy.

Really you can't be serious!

Yes. What is your definition? Everyone thinks it is obvious and so did I but when I start thinking about it I am not sure any more.

In every sexually dimorphic group, the male is defined as the one organised to provide the small gamete, the female is the one organised to provide the large gamete. Sometimes nature goes wrong and that function isn't working for that individual but that doesn't negate the principal. It's strange how we accept this definition for every other mammal in creation but suddenly when it comes to humans 'feelings', 'being raised as' and 'passports' suddenly are more important.

Yoginimeisje

Jackiest

Before you can test for someone being female you have to define what female is. I have just tried googling a definition of female and it comes up with half a dozen different definitions. Chromosomes, hormones, testosterone, unless everyone can agree on a definition there will always be controversy.

Really you can't be serious!

Yes. What is your definition? Everyone thinks it is obvious and so did I but when I start thinking about it I am not sure any more.

Here's the clip:

x.com/blackbirdpeeja/status/1819352991453114391?s=61&t=qph6ruaz5B5GPjDn7jnZBw

I saw a video clip of Imane Khelif absent mindedly rearranging his 'tackle' before fighting the female boxer! Explain that one.

For a start we can say anybody with testes whether internal or external which produce testosterone that their body can utilise is male. Caster Semenya's DSD (5 ard) including internal active testes caused a male puberty with all its advantages. That surely is totally unambiguous? Men with 5 ard can produce sperm and can father children. That will keep some out of the female category and we won't have the situation as in the Rio Olympics when athletes with the DSD 5 ards took gold, silver and bronze medals in the women's 800 metres..

I find it quite disheartening how many people just don't consider female sports worth protecting. As for the IOC "we determine sex and age by what's on their passport" I despair!
They might as well do away with women's events altogether and just make everything mixed, of course women won't be disadvantaged........

Jackiest

Before you can test for someone being female you have to define what female is. I have just tried googling a definition of female and it comes up with half a dozen different definitions. Chromosomes, hormones, testosterone, unless everyone can agree on a definition there will always be controversy.

Really you can't be serious!

Syracute you protest too much me thinks!

Before you can test for someone being female you have to define what female is. I have just tried googling a definition of female and it comes up with half a dozen different definitions. Chromosomes, hormones, testosterone, unless everyone can agree on a definition there will always be controversy.

Yes, the title is wrong and I have reported it and asked GNHQ to amend it. I took the thread title from a news feed I saw on line and that was how this was initially reported.

It’s a complex subject isn’t it
Yes the title is completely wrong This person is not trans and they did NOT make the Italian girl quit, she chose to do that herself, but surely everyone can agree that the situation (for the Algerian as much as anyone) needs correcting and making sure it never happens again or else next Olympics will be full of ‘masculine’ females
There is a test that has proved correct enough to be used by many agencies There must be a reason Imane Khelif isn’t biting their hands off to do it or even pay to have it done privately to prove who he/ she is and put this all to bed

If they are really a female it must be so awful for them constantly being accused but if they are male they are totally cheating and need to go as do all others who are in this questionable state

Strange there’s never any ‘questionable’ people wanting to fight/ run/ jump in the men’s events though is there ?

From a scientific journal found in ResearchGate.

... This discussant bleeds of contradiction by stating that the most definitive method is a test that examines the athlete's DNA but prefaces that there can be anomalies. But the question remains if there are anomalies how exact is this form of measurement that is supposed to allow an individual to fit in either/or category of male and female as the experience of Spain's Olympian top hurdler Maria Patino demonstrates (Dickinson et al., 2002;Fausto-Sterling, 2000;McDonagh & Pappano, 2008;Wackwitz, 2003). As feminist and biologist Anne Fausto-Sterling (2000) states, the chromosome test was eventually eliminated because the body's sex is much more complex and a test examining the genetic makeup is not a conclusive method to determine sex. ...

Syracute

Don’t try to validate these horrible accusations by saying that the thread subject has changed . It is still promoting the idea that woman have to be tested . Tests which have proven to be inaccurate. This is not new subject to the Olympics . It is as old as the Olympics itself .
No respectable media source is questioning this woman’s gender .

Where is your evidence for Tests which have proven to be inaccurate. You wouldn't be wanting to posting rumours or inaccuracies would you? These buccal swabs are identical to those used by law enforcement agencies worldwide, many resulting in convictions for crimes, yet you say they're proven to be inaccurate? You really need to back that up with verifiable evidence or withdraw it.

The original Olympics didn't permit women contestants, they performed naked, I think a non-man would have been noticed!

I don't know whether these two athletes are genetically male or female and neither do you, but if I was in their position I would volunteer a DNA test to clear my name and stop the speculation in its tracks. The vast majority of female athletes want the reinstatement of the buccal swabs, why are you so against this majority wish?

Galaxy

We are allowed to discuss the idea of testing within sports. Sorry but we are.

Of course we are.
And sex assigned at birth can, in rare cases, be wrong.

Providing a buccal swab for testing is easy and would put paid to a lot of questions and controversy.

“This is not new subject to the Olympics . It is as old as the Olympics itself .”

Testing? I think not Syracute! Imagine Ancient Greece with test tubes and swabs…my aching sides 🤣

You of course are perfectly entitled to argue against that.

We are allowed to discuss the idea of testing within sports. Sorry but we are.

Don’t try to validate these horrible accusations by saying that the thread subject has changed . It is still promoting the idea that woman have to be tested . Tests which have proven to be inaccurate. This is not new subject to the Olympics . It is as old as the Olympics itself .
No respectable media source is questioning this woman’s gender .

“You have NO proof that this woman is anything but a woman she has fought 90 fights as a woman and lost 9”

This is the most telling thing isn’t it? The surprising thing is that she’s lost 9 against women! A buccal test as an adult would prove it - which is why she won’t take it of course!

The title is wrong and as far as I am aware has been reported. We are discussing what has been reported widely in all media. The discussion is now about sex testing within sport which is a perfectly reasonable subject of debate.

Oreo

Don’t tell people what they can and cannot post Syracute

I am tired of people posting without facts .
What’s wrong about telling people to stop rumors and hate talk . That is what this is I have read extensively on this . Yet someone will come and continue the hate . The title of this thread itself is a lie .

Aveline

XX or XY is pretty conclusive. Just test. Test now before medals are awarded.

I agree.
Anyone who refuses a test should be disqualified.

Don’t tell people what they can and cannot post Syracute

We are discussing something that is all over the media and is being discussed by sports people at all levels.