Boxer forces female competitor to quit at the Olympic games [Title edited by GNHQ at poster's request]

Just seen Mark Adams at today's briefing utter the words "we managed to get rid of sex testing in the last century (yep 1999)" This begs the question, why? Why would you want to stop sex testing? Especially as the vast majority of female athletes wanted it retained. They never explain why it's not necessary, yet drug testing expands year on year.

Rosie51

Whitewavemark2

I absolutely agree that the trans issue needs urgent addressing in sport and other areas such as female space.

But I absolutely reject the the misinformation and hate being displayed over a young woman and her sex.

There isn’t a person on this thread who knows the truth behind the women in question medical history’s
We do know that the young Algerian was born a woman, lives as a woman and plays sport as a woman.

To suggest otherwise without knowing the truth is cruel, divisive and wrong.

Until we (if ever) know her medical history, we are in no position whatsoever to comment.

Only the sports bodies are in that position. As science and information changes, so do the rules etc.

Speaking from ignorance gets us nowhere.

But this issue has nothing whatsoever to do with the trans issue. That is on its way to being addressed, no male who has gone through puberty is eligible to enter the female class in an ever increasing number of sports.

This is something quite different. there are males born with the DSD 5Ard who, being possessed of indeterminate genitalia, have been registered female at birth. This initial mistake does not alter that they are in fact male, no matter how they are dressed, socially accepted, or view themselves. When they fail to menstruate but go through male puberty they gain all the physical advantages that bestows. You declined to answer whether or not you agree with routine sex screening by the one off buccal swab. I can only wonder why. This is a reliable test, the results of which are used in criminal trials and upheld by the highest courts. If they're accurate for criminals why would they not be accurate for athletes? If any athlete who has beaten female opposition was proved to be male would you side with them, or the opponents who were denied their success?

I'm not sure what part of that explanation is difficult to understand, Rosie51.

But this issue has nothing whatsoever to do with the trans issue.
Nor do I understand why it keeps being referred to as a transgender issue when it is not.

I would feel very sorry for someone assigned the wrong sex at birth and it happens very rarely indeed but going through male puberty would be an indication that more investigation is needed.

I must admit when I heard her speak she sounded female.

Whitewavemark2

And yes of course I agree with routine sex screening.

Sorry I missed this post, I obviously didn't refresh often enough. I'm pleased you agree with sex screening. These two boxers have failed a sex screen test, were eliminated from competition, and yet didn't appeal to the CAS as they were entitled to.

Sex screening is no longer done for the Olympics, they discontinued it despite the vast majority of females voting in favour of keeping it. There are no plans to reintroduce sex screening. And yet they test for a multitude of drug offences. I suppose because that affects the male category too.

Do I remember Tessa Sanderson going through some tough times with accusations or have I just made that up !

I thought that was Fatima Whitbread, who competed when everybody was buccal swabbed, so she was definitely female!

It could and should be put to bed by testing everybody automatically That seems to me the only way forward if this person does test as a female then she is exonerated and if they don’t pass the test they are out and surely that is the only answer
If they do turn out to be female then it’s been an awful thing to go through. If they have high levels of testosterone then they are gone for good with a cheat title ,
Seems a simple solution for everyone the boxer in question particularly

Do I remember Tessa Sanderson going through some tough times with accusations or have I just made that up !

Whitewavemark2

We will agree to disagree on this one I think.

I think it's very obvious that you are unwilling to comment on buccal swabs. So it would seem likely you disagree with them. Is that because they prove the sex of the person, or maybe you think all criminal convictions based on them should be vacated as they're 'not reliable'.

I tend to go with those who know what they are talking about.

The WBO (World Boxing Organisation) are the experts.

For the record I do not hate anyone.

I do abhor men being allowed to beat up women in the name of fair sport

IOC should hang their heads in shame.

They were informed, they knew…

We will agree to disagree on this one I think.

WBO Vice President…

Whitewavemark2

Rosie51

Whitewavemark2

I absolutely agree that the trans issue needs urgent addressing in sport and other areas such as female space.

But I absolutely reject the the misinformation and hate being displayed over a young woman and her sex.

There isn’t a person on this thread who knows the truth behind the women in question medical history’s
We do know that the young Algerian was born a woman, lives as a woman and plays sport as a woman.

To suggest otherwise without knowing the truth is cruel, divisive and wrong.

Until we (if ever) know her medical history, we are in no position whatsoever to comment.

Only the sports bodies are in that position. As science and information changes, so do the rules etc.

Speaking from ignorance gets us nowhere.

But this issue has nothing whatsoever to do with the trans issue. That is on its way to being addressed, no male who has gone through puberty is eligible to enter the female class in an ever increasing number of sports.

This is something quite different. there are males born with the DSD 5Ard who, being possessed of indeterminate genitalia, have been registered female at birth. This initial mistake does not alter that they are in fact male, no matter how they are dressed, socially accepted, or view themselves. When they fail to menstruate but go through male puberty they gain all the physical advantages that bestows. You declined to answer whether or not you agree with routine sex screening by the one off buccal swab. I can only wonder why. This is a reliable test, the results of which are used in criminal trials and upheld by the highest courts. If they're accurate for criminals why would they not be accurate for athletes? If any athlete who has beaten female opposition was proved to be male would you side with them, or the opponents who were denied their success?

But the point is you haven’t a clue about her sex status.

Would I side with a male beating a female? No of course I wouldnt.

But until I know for sure - and I don’t - I will never take part in condemning an individual based on supposition and ignorance.

Still not prepared to state your views on buccal swabs then? I don't hate this boxer, and have not expressed any hate. I want fairness, and this boxer was eliminated from a previous contest on the basis of a sex test. Are you certain that was the wrong decision, if so what makes you so sure? There was no appeal against that elimination which is somewhat surprising.

And yes of course I agree with routine sex screening.

Rosie51

Whitewavemark2

I absolutely agree that the trans issue needs urgent addressing in sport and other areas such as female space.

But I absolutely reject the the misinformation and hate being displayed over a young woman and her sex.

There isn’t a person on this thread who knows the truth behind the women in question medical history’s
We do know that the young Algerian was born a woman, lives as a woman and plays sport as a woman.

To suggest otherwise without knowing the truth is cruel, divisive and wrong.

Until we (if ever) know her medical history, we are in no position whatsoever to comment.

Only the sports bodies are in that position. As science and information changes, so do the rules etc.

Speaking from ignorance gets us nowhere.

But this issue has nothing whatsoever to do with the trans issue. That is on its way to being addressed, no male who has gone through puberty is eligible to enter the female class in an ever increasing number of sports.

This is something quite different. there are males born with the DSD 5Ard who, being possessed of indeterminate genitalia, have been registered female at birth. This initial mistake does not alter that they are in fact male, no matter how they are dressed, socially accepted, or view themselves. When they fail to menstruate but go through male puberty they gain all the physical advantages that bestows. You declined to answer whether or not you agree with routine sex screening by the one off buccal swab. I can only wonder why. This is a reliable test, the results of which are used in criminal trials and upheld by the highest courts. If they're accurate for criminals why would they not be accurate for athletes? If any athlete who has beaten female opposition was proved to be male would you side with them, or the opponents who were denied their success?

But the point is you haven’t a clue about her sex status.

Would I side with a male beating a female? No of course I wouldnt.

But until I know for sure - and I don’t - I will never take part in condemning an individual based on supposition and ignorance.

Whitewavemark2 not all that you have posted is true.

There are multiple photos of Imane Khelif dressed as a male on their own social media.

A highly respected Boxing Expert (NBC sports journalist) warned the IOC over a year ago, having seen letters and the test results.

A simple mouth swab test would settle this once and for all.

In the meantime the IOC is burying its head in the sand and the Olympic brand is being tarnished.

If all of the sports journalists who are against Khelif boxing as a women due to having XY chromosomes are wrong, why aren’t their posts and comments being taken down?

Whitewavemark2

I absolutely agree that the trans issue needs urgent addressing in sport and other areas such as female space.

But I absolutely reject the the misinformation and hate being displayed over a young woman and her sex.

There isn’t a person on this thread who knows the truth behind the women in question medical history’s
We do know that the young Algerian was born a woman, lives as a woman and plays sport as a woman.

To suggest otherwise without knowing the truth is cruel, divisive and wrong.

Until we (if ever) know her medical history, we are in no position whatsoever to comment.

Only the sports bodies are in that position. As science and information changes, so do the rules etc.

Speaking from ignorance gets us nowhere.

But this issue has nothing whatsoever to do with the trans issue. That is on its way to being addressed, no male who has gone through puberty is eligible to enter the female class in an ever increasing number of sports.

This is something quite different. there are males born with the DSD 5Ard who, being possessed of indeterminate genitalia, have been registered female at birth. This initial mistake does not alter that they are in fact male, no matter how they are dressed, socially accepted, or view themselves. When they fail to menstruate but go through male puberty they gain all the physical advantages that bestows. You declined to answer whether or not you agree with routine sex screening by the one off buccal swab. I can only wonder why. This is a reliable test, the results of which are used in criminal trials and upheld by the highest courts. If they're accurate for criminals why would they not be accurate for athletes? If any athlete who has beaten female opposition was proved to be male would you side with them, or the opponents who were denied their success?

I absolutely agree that the trans issue needs urgent addressing in sport and other areas such as female space.

But I absolutely reject the the misinformation and hate being displayed over a young woman and her sex.

There isn’t a person on this thread who knows the truth behind the women in question medical history’s
We do know that the young Algerian was born a woman, lives as a woman and plays sport as a woman.

To suggest otherwise without knowing the truth is cruel, divisive and wrong.

Until we (if ever) know her medical history, we are in no position whatsoever to comment.

Only the sports bodies are in that position. As science and information changes, so do the rules etc.

Speaking from ignorance gets us nowhere.

Whitewavemark2

I was heartened to hear that the young woman in question was drowned with cheers and support when she entered the ring.

The spectators at least seem to understand the issues.

And no Sharron Davies is not the go to oracle when seeking information about issues of sex.

Doctors are - and there is no information in the public arena that provides evidence other than the boxer is a woman, has lived as a woman and was born as a woman.

And no Sharron Davies is not the go to oracle when seeking information about issues of sex.

Maybe not, but she has a great deal of personal experience of having competed against cheats. Back then she was cheated by females who had benefitted from illegal drug regimes because everyone underwent sex screening.

Do you disagree with her wanting to bring back routine cheek swabs for every athlete? It only needs to be done once, takes moments, is not onerous or embarrassing, and definitively records the correct biological sex of the athlete. One has to wonder why those that object to what was a routine practice do so. The vast majority of female athletes when polled by IOC stated they wanted to retain the tests. The IOC discontinued them, for reasons known only to them. Why would anyone be against females not having to compete against males in sex segregated sports?

Khelif training with a female boxer…

Mark Adams the spokesperson for the IOC has known Sir Keir Starmer since schooldays, he was best man at the PM’s wedding.

Not at all relevant I know, but hey ho.

Rosie51

Syracute

GrannyGravy13

I trust Sharon Davies.

This is a false statement based on the discredited IBA.

I have read many articles on this and many newspapers and no one is supporting this FALSE statement .

So you're calling Sharon Davies a liar? Any idea why neither boxer appealed the decision since they'd know that a sex screening test would confirm their biological sex?
Even now the two boxers could agree to sex screening to put this to bed once and for all. It's a simple cheek swab, nothing onerous, takes no time, as Sharon Davies has said when she (along with all other athletes) was subjected to it years ago. Once in a lifetime and the result is recorded forever. You have to wonder why this simple, accurate process was stopped despite the vast majority of women being in favour of keeping it.

They won’t agree as they know they will be disqualified.

Yes they are in dispute. The IOC s record over the years particularly in relation to the doping scandal has not been great.

Syracute

GrannyGravy13

I trust Sharon Davies.

This is a false statement based on the discredited IBA.

I have read many articles on this and many newspapers and no one is supporting this FALSE statement .

Which body has discredited the IBA?

*The International Olympic Committee has voted to strip the International Boxing Association of its status as the sport's world governing body*.

Well, well!!

I was heartened to hear that the young woman in question was drowned with cheers and support when she entered the ring.

The spectators at least seem to understand the issues.

And no Sharron Davies is not the go to oracle when seeking information about issues of sex.

Doctors are - and there is no information in the public arena that provides evidence other than the boxer is a woman, has lived as a woman and was born as a woman.

Syracute

GrannyGravy13

I trust Sharon Davies.

This is a false statement based on the discredited IBA.

I have read many articles on this and many newspapers and no one is supporting this FALSE statement .

So you're calling Sharon Davies a liar? Any idea why neither boxer appealed the decision since they'd know that a sex screening test would confirm their biological sex?
Even now the two boxers could agree to sex screening to put this to bed once and for all. It's a simple cheek swab, nothing onerous, takes no time, as Sharon Davies has said when she (along with all other athletes) was subjected to it years ago. Once in a lifetime and the result is recorded forever. You have to wonder why this simple, accurate process was stopped despite the vast majority of women being in favour of keeping it.