The right to peaceful protest in the UK

I agree GG , there are a whole gamut of social issues that come into play and a shed load of toxic influences via social media, if there isn't a lot of hope about one's future, it's not hard to see the susceptiblity there. In an age where some educators would seek to imbue a blanket "we must acknowledge our white privilege" on an entire demographic, regardless of whatever deprivations they are experiencing, maybe we shouldn't be surprised when the lid is lifted on that Pandora's Box.

JN450 some salient points.

GG13 I think all the reasons you listed could be the cause of young people hating the a society that they feel has given them nothing.
None of us can condone rioting and I would never excuse it but there are so many who feel that violence and destruction is the only way of "getting back"at society.
I do fear that rioting will become more common in future.

Why do they participate?

Fed false news

www.bbc.com/news/articles/cl4y0453nv5o

As for optics

*The "optics" for the people of Southport, holding their peaceful vigil for the children and families, invaded by a riotous mob attacking a mosque and peoples gardens and making them confused, frightened and I daresay very angry....?

Then people on a riot in London saying they are "doing it for the children*

I would like to reiterate that I am not condoning violence, rioting or any other form of civil disobedience.

I am just trying to make sense of why people participate in the above and does it relate to the optics of how they perceive the police police various marches and demonstrations.

JN450

Please try to avoid misinformation.

Leeds

West Yorkshire Police said a number of people had been held, though it did not specify how many, and said further arrests would be made in the coming days.

Manchester

Four men were later arrested on suspicion of assault and affray. they were released on bail, which is normal procedure.

AGAA4 I wonder if it is levels of self esteem?

If you feel you are a nobody without a voice, without any dreams or aspirations, doom scrolling through social media and coming across a group of similar souls.

Do they think they have found their tribe ?

We have instances of grooming, suicide tutorials, porn all available on phones etc.,

Are the likes of Yaxley-Lennon grooming (can’t think of another word) the younger lost generation

Are the older ones seen at these riots, just angry at the world for whatever reason.

Is education or the lack of it at the root?

Do they come from troubled families?

Are they financially insecure?

I do not have the answers, but surely as a society we need to find them pretty quickly or the next generation of disenfranchised will just follow suit.

Policing protests will always require officers to take decisions as the event unfolds and especially if some protesters become violent or commit criminal damage but when officers are vastly outnumbered intervention may not be practicable. Comparing what happens at one demo with another is like comparing apples and pears but agitators will seek to complain about differences. They should be ignored.

I think the overall picture is far bigger than one elderly lady who may or may not have deserved to have been arrested. We can all look at individual cases which could be argued either way.

The only person arrested on the evening of the Leeds riots was a white female while so many people were left to run riot. The optics of that alone is something the Police should have avoided. Having seen the video of her complaining about the rioting I think they could have dealt with it in a different way other than arresting her.

Manchester Airport - the Officer has been suspended while as far as I know, and please correct me if I’m wrong, the perpetrators of the attacks on the Police which broke the female Officers nose, have still not been arrested. Why? It’s not as if there isn’t enough evidence. They were originally taken to Rochdale Police Station but subsequently released following an angry mob of Muslims turning up at the station demanding their release before holy hell was unleashed. Lo and behold, they were released. I didn’t hear too much in the media outlets about that, and I certainly didn’t hear Keir Starmer calling them thugs. Again - why? Mob rule clearly gets someone released and that is completely ignored? The other odd thing about that is that as soon as the footage was released of the Officer, he was immediately labelled as racist. When the footage came out of the perpetrators punching the Police, I didn’t hear anyone calling them racist. Neither case may be true, but the same logic automatically applied to one, like it or not, applies to both.

I’m sure you can always pick out individual circumstances which are just plain wrong, but there are far too many instances of things like this happening in today’s society. It gives the impression the minority should be treated differently; we shouldn’t offend any minority in case it stirs up tension. Just because they may be a minority doesn’t mean they are always right. It’s quite simple, treat everyone the same. That clearly is not happening within the Police and other authorities including Government (Labour and Tory). If Keir Starmer and Yvette Cooper thinks its just a few far right thugs who are fed up of this situation they are very sadly mistaken, I for one am also fed up of it (and no, sorry to disappoint anyone, I’m not far right).

GrannyGravy13

I give up 🤦‍♀️

It’s not what I think and want.

It’s what those that are disenfranchised see and hear on screens and from their mates.

I am trying to discuss how they can be reached out to (another phrase I dislike)

If things are left as they are the UK is storing up trouble which can and in all probability erupt on our streets.

I know situations need different solutions and policing but there are 1,000’s who cannot and do not.

I was speaking to a very elderly lady this morning who said that conscription would be a good idea for some of these young people who think that rioting is all they can do.
I don't agree with it myself but can see her point that some could actually have a career from joining up instead of feeling hopeless.
I wonder why some think rioting is the way for them and others in a similar situation use their surplus energy more productively in sports for instance.

I don’t believe in making excuses for those people who riot by saying they have been driven to it by feeling they have been left behind.

Neither do I. The police should been seen to operate the law to everyone, without fear or favour. Unfortunately I’m forced to believe that this has not been happening. The JSO protests have clearly shown that, soft policing. Thankfully they finally arrested a few and they’ve gone to prison which proves it was the right decision, but many others were not arrested. But the trouble that group caused was enormous, as was discussed on another thread. It is illegal to block a highway, but the police stopped the traffic on the motorway to make it safe for the protesters to block the highway, an illegal act. I’m pleased that the police have gone in fully with these recent riots, but they don’t always do that.

I give up 🤦‍♀️

It’s not what I think and want.

It’s what those that are disenfranchised see and hear on screens and from their mates.

I am trying to discuss how they can be reached out to (another phrase I dislike)

If things are left as they are the UK is storing up trouble which can and in all probability erupt on our streets.

I know situations need different solutions and policing but there are 1,000’s who cannot and do not.

Those who support the right in politics have no more in common with the rioters than those on the left, and no one should be afraid to criticise these people.

We must unit to resist this threat to our society, just as our parents did.

"Two tier policing" is not a fact, its a meme to justify the rioting/attacks on Mosques that we have seen this week

but its also propaganda to in advance justify a further 20 to 50 (depending on which SM platform you consult) similar riots being planned, where the situation is people arriving in a place totally unrelated to their own lives to riot, from all over the country, to join in.
Whatever the skin colour, this is conspiracy - clearly stated intentions to attack Mosques and migrant centres.

Policing if riots occur, unplanned, in local communities is far more complex and unpredictable.

Yes of course those who riot should be arrested, whatever the skin colour, but it's a case by case situation. The overall need is to keep the peace within a community as well as arresting those who are violent.

I don’t want the police to go in softly to any rioters. I’m not interested in the colour or ethnic origin of the people who are causing conflict, I simply want the police to enforce the law wherever it is necessary.

So police go in hard on white rioters but leave the peaceful Palestinian protesters alone.
Do you expect the police to cause trouble at a peaceful protest?
All the situations that have been mentioned above had to be dealt with differently to avoid injury and loss of life.
I don't believe in making excuses for those people who riot by saying they have been driven to it by feeling they are left behind.

So would you prefer that the police not use their judgement and intelligence snd treat everyone the same?

That would be very poor policing.

What is needed is transparency and educating people who don’t understand the difference in different groups, the law and history.

Whatever the police or the government’s explanation for difference in policing protests and or riots, the average non-political person will see on other screens and social media:-

White (mostly) police go in hard.

Others (Roma, Palestinian, Black etc) police go in soft, if at all.

Those more informed are able to comprehend the why’s and wherefore’s the disenfranchised just see it as it is shown.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Keir Starmer has announced a Violent Disorder Unit, which will be deployed to stop rioting and, well, violent disorder. I'm pleased that the rioting might be nipped in the bud, whoever is responsible.

As for what we are being told is generalised discontent - I hope that when the government has had a chance to put more measures in place to equalise society people might feel less 'left behind'. As it is, there are whole areas of the country where investment is very low, opportunities scarce and life chances limited. Of course people are resentful. They've had 14 years of being ignored. With luck that will change sooner rather than later.

Freya5

Whitewavemark2

Galaxy

As someone involved in childrens services, the idea that riots following a safeguarding incident does not impact on the wider community is not true. Those scenes impact those who work within that environment and who have to make difficult decisions eith regard to childrens welfare.

Yes but did it impact on the rest of the country? Were there incidents as a result in other parts of the country. Are those taking part seen as an existential threat to the U.K. as a whole. Are they of interest to the security services and monitored by the ani-terrorist police.

I think not.

The two incidents were entirely different.

They still caused havoc and fear amongst the people who were living in that area. Believe police cars were torched , police attacked. Violent chaos, and softly treated by the powers that be. Yes some arrested, good. Were they called right wing thugs or even thugs, no.
See the poor elderly lady standing in silent protest, surrounded by thuggish police, she is such a danger to the country. Hard eft wing and Islamists are more of a threat to our country than any elderly lady.

"See the poor elderly lady standing in silent protest, surrounded by thuggish police, she is such a danger to the country. Hard eft wing and Islamists are more of a threat to our country than any elderly lady."

The reality of the image of the “elderly lady” described was identified and discredited at 10 29.32 on page 2:

"“I listened to the audio of her arrest on the Sheila Foggerty programme yesterday (LBC). 

Initially the woman was shouting that she wasn’t part of the angry mob, that she’s got a pacemaker, that she was just minding her own business and happened to be walking down that road.

As she got more & more angry (I would say aggressive from her voice) her truth came out.

She shouted ‘I’ve come here because them babies were murderd’. So not just ‘happened to be walking down the street then’!



The clips shown in NiceNanny’s post, which I suppose are doing the SM rounds, don’t tell the whole story"

GG13’s original post was regarding two tier policing and I totally agree with the point she is trying to make. I don’t need to read some newspaper article persuading me that it doesn’t exist, I prefer to use my own eye’s and ears. Look at a few examples:- the BLM riots where Police were actually taking the knee in front of the protesters; Leeds riots where the Police left the area completely; Palestinian marches every week where they openly support a banned terrorist organisation and shout for the annihilation of Jews and the Police watch on. Compare those with the other demonstrations where the Police turn up in full riot gear, particularly in London (again) where people (many certainly not far right thugs though some no doubt were) were systematically taken out and arrested one by one. Now all those causing trouble at any of these demonstrations deserve to be locked up and the key thrown away, and you can say what you want about intel but are you telling me the many BLM riots that took place were any different? No they weren’t, but they were certainly treated far differently. Peaceful protesting by anyone is fine, and by the same token any thugs causing trouble at any protest should be dealt with severely. But if anyone thinks they all treated the same then it’s time to take the proverbial head out of the sand. As can be seen in the video’s from London, not everyone there was a white thug intent on causing trouble so for Keir Starmer to label everyone as ‘far right’ is simply fanning the flames.

we all know the reasons why

Karmalady I’d prefer it if you didn’t speak for me … so not all.

mae13

According to the news although the terrible incident happened in Southport - usually fairly uneventful and pretty genteel - trouble kicked off in Hartepool. What?

two separate riots
wtf is going on?

Whitewavemark2

Galaxy

As someone involved in childrens services, the idea that riots following a safeguarding incident does not impact on the wider community is not true. Those scenes impact those who work within that environment and who have to make difficult decisions eith regard to childrens welfare.

Yes but did it impact on the rest of the country? Were there incidents as a result in other parts of the country. Are those taking part seen as an existential threat to the U.K. as a whole. Are they of interest to the security services and monitored by the ani-terrorist police.

I think not.

The two incidents were entirely different.

They still caused havoc and fear amongst the people who were living in that area. Believe police cars were torched , police attacked. Violent chaos, and softly treated by the powers that be. Yes some arrested, good. Were they called right wing thugs or even thugs, no.
See the poor elderly lady standing in silent protest, surrounded by thuggish police, she is such a danger to the country. Hard eft wing and Islamists are more of a threat to our country than any elderly lady.

What is different this time around is that they are not forming “groups” as such, because they are trying to avoid being banned. But I’m sure the security forces can still arrest individuals for riot etc.