The right to peaceful protest in the UK

Casdon

Let’s be clear, these protests are nothing to do with there being a Labour Government in power. Nothing would be any different if it was the Tories, or any other party who won the election a month ago. By joining a protest linked to the thugs who invaded a vigil in Southport people are perpetuating an obscene intrusion into the privacy of a grieving community.

I’m all for peaceful protest. I’m totally against protest fuelled by deliberate violence.

Yes. I think the last time the EDL made such a nuisance if themselves it was a Tory government in power.

Report dated 2010

MPs expressed concern tonight after it emerged that far-right activists are planning to step up their provocative street campaign by targeting some of the UK's highest-profile Muslim communities, raising fears of widespread unrest this summer.

The EDL (which has subsequently been banned) staged a number of anti-Islamic riots across the U.K.

So they are now simply regrouping and trying to cause trouble once again.

Nothing to do with the government

to too ethic ethnic

karmalady

Dictatorship is in sight. These protestors are all called `thugs` and `far right` yet the gaza demonstrators are treated with kid gloves. Starmer is in a bubble, the people in this country have had enough for various reasons, we are not far right, just fed up with loss of community etc

If a protest is destined near me then I will attend. I have heard whispers and big protests will be happening all over. Get rid of the hooligan trouble makers, I second that, but leave the rest of us to protest before this country completely falls apart and we all know the reasons why

Do we “all know the reasons why”?

Please do elucidate.

"Keir Starmer has poured oil on the fire with his speech labelling everyone who is upset about certain aspects of life in the UK now as the far right thugs, I don't dispute there are thugs on both sides of the right and left"

This I agree with. The pejorative labels attached such as "loony left" a chance bit of alliteration that's stuck and to readily attached, although there is a perception that surrounds left wing legal aid lawyers, particularly when they defend the indefensible that they are on a gravy train..Conversely, attaching the label "far right extremists" doesn't help when people are questioning aspects of far left orthodoxy. Spurious culture wars have fanned the flames in the last few years. Look no further than the insanity of the male bodied boxer who has been allowed to represent their country in the Olympics. Justifiably outraged we expend our energies on these insane practices that shouldn't be allowed but are, it has all the hallmarks of "loonyism" if that's a word, it probably isn't, but if you are one of those who oppose that for example, by some, we know we will be deemed as fascists. That's another word hurled about by younger demographics (sometimes) who don't appear to understand how a police state operates. Indeed that trans woman cyclist Emily something or other, referred to trans women not being able to compete as an act of genocide, how inappropriate!

The Tommy Robinsons of this world will flourish because there have been certain ethic groups who have been allowed to get away with criminal activities. I remember one Labour MP, retweeting something along the lines of this before she hastily got rid of it when it was picked up "white women need to be quiet in the interests of social cohesion" not verbatim but the gist "shut up and don't rock the boat" re Rotherham. When The Times broke the story, the reporter at the time had qualms about reporting it because it was "deemed too hot to handle"

LizzieDrip

NiceNanny I think it’s obscene for anyone to use the murder of children's as an excuse to protest! What exactly were they (including the 73 year old) actually protesting about?

If any of them cared one jot about the children and their families, they’d have stayed in their homes and thought about the tragedy those people are experiencing.
And this includes the 73 year old woman, who IMO should know better - why did she need to be on the streets shouting and screeching. Respect for the bereaved???

I can only imagine how all this crap is making those families feel. Do you think they’re saying ‘oh, I’m glad people are out protesting about this horrific thing that has happened to me’?

For God’s sake! Whatever happened to empathy in this country!

Very well said!

LizzieDrip

NiceNanny I think it’s obscene for anyone to use the murder of children's as an excuse to protest! What exactly were they (including the 73 year old) actually protesting about?

If any of them cared one jot about the children and their families, they’d have stayed in their homes and thought about the tragedy those people are experiencing.
And this includes the 73 year old woman, who IMO should know better - why did she need to be on the streets shouting and screeching. Respect for the bereaved???

I can only imagine how all this crap is making those families feel. Do you think they’re saying ‘oh, I’m glad people are out protesting about this horrific thing that has happened to me’?

For God’s sake! Whatever happened to empathy in this country!

I agree. Those poor bereaved families are having their children's deaths used as an excuse for rioting. I saw on social media an invitation to join the attack on the mosque which used a picture of one of the little girls. That is shameful.

Let’s be clear, these protests are nothing to do with there being a Labour Government in power. Nothing would be any different if it was the Tories, or any other party who won the election a month ago. By joining a protest linked to the thugs who invaded a vigil in Southport people are perpetuating an obscene intrusion into the privacy of a grieving community.

I’m all for peaceful protest. I’m totally against protest fuelled by deliberate violence.

karmalady

Dictatorship is in sight. These protestors are all called `thugs` and `far right` yet the gaza demonstrators are treated with kid gloves. Starmer is in a bubble, the people in this country have had enough for various reasons, we are not far right, just fed up with loss of community etc

If a protest is destined near me then I will attend. I have heard whispers and big protests will be happening all over. Get rid of the hooligan trouble makers, I second that, but leave the rest of us to protest before this country completely falls apart and we all know the reasons why

If it wouldn’t be zapped I could post page after page of the Southport/London rioters communications.

You couldn’t tell the difference between them, Nazi sympathise, proud boys in USA and white supremicists.

Our security services have described them as far right.

The U.K. prime minister has been briefed by the security services.

What would you call these groups?

According to the news although the terrible incident happened in Southport - usually fairly uneventful and pretty genteel - trouble kicked off in Hartepool. What?

They were not protesters. They were rioters. Protest is legal, but rioting is not.

Dictatorship is in sight. These protestors are all called `thugs` and `far right` yet the gaza demonstrators are treated with kid gloves. Starmer is in a bubble, the people in this country have had enough for various reasons, we are not far right, just fed up with loss of community etc

If a protest is destined near me then I will attend. I have heard whispers and big protests will be happening all over. Get rid of the hooligan trouble makers, I second that, but leave the rest of us to protest before this country completely falls apart and we all know the reasons why

LizzieDrip

NiceNanny I think it’s obscene for anyone to use the murder of children's as an excuse to protest! What exactly were they (including the 73 year old) actually protesting about?

If any of them cared one jot about the children and their families, they’d have stayed in their homes and thought about the tragedy those people are experiencing.
And this includes the 73 year old woman, who IMO should know better - why did she need to be on the streets shouting and screeching. Respect for the bereaved???

I can only imagine how all this crap is making those families feel. Do you think they’re saying ‘oh, I’m glad people are out protesting about this horrific thing that has happened to me’?

For God’s sake! Whatever happened to empathy in this country!

Yes.

Quiet respect it is called.

NiceNanny I think it’s obscene for anyone to use the murder of children's as an excuse to protest! What exactly were they (including the 73 year old) actually protesting about?

If any of them cared one jot about the children and their families, they’d have stayed in their homes and thought about the tragedy those people are experiencing.
And this includes the 73 year old woman, who IMO should know better - why did she need to be on the streets shouting and screeching. Respect for the bereaved???

I can only imagine how all this crap is making those families feel. Do you think they’re saying ‘oh, I’m glad people are out protesting about this horrific thing that has happened to me’?

For God’s sake! Whatever happened to empathy in this country!

Whitewavemark2

Nicenanny3
I agree GrannyGravy13

“Keir Starmer has poured oil on the fire with his speech by labelling everyone who are upset about certain aspects of life now in the UK as Far Right Thugs and I don't disbute there are thugs on both sides right and left.

Yes it certainly seems like 2 tier policing.
The security services have labeled these groups as far right.

Starmer is reiterating the security forces including the anti-terrorist forces.”

Starmer, imo, has NOT poured oil or fanned the flames. He is right to label the Tommy Robinson types as far right, because this is what they are.

What exactly do you mean about “certain aspects of life in the UK”

Is it Muslims, Asylum Seekers, Gays, Transgender, or all of the forementioned. Please elucidate.

Im not unhappy with any of the above, unlike some people I firmly believe that there are “good” and “bad” people across the spectrum and wouldn’t condemn any one cohort of people as”bad” or “wrong”.

I live pretty close to Southend, as with any seaside resort we’ve had our fair share of issues, across many many years. But I’ve found the majority of my neighbours and our community to be good honest and hardworking irrespective of their race, colour or religion.

I abhor discrimination of any type.

Galaxy

But whose politics? What values do you want to be taught, I am pretty sure not everyone on the thread would be able to agree on that. I am not undermining your suggestions GG, just looking at the complexity of it. British values are taught from early years downwards, but the issues we are talking about are so complex.

All political angles should in my opinion be taught in senior school, without prejudice towards any political party.

Discussions on personal responsibilities, free speech etc are just as important than if not more so than fronted adverbs and algebra.

Nicenanny3

LizzieDrip

Didn’t really want to comment, but felt the need to put the record straight regarding the woman arrested in NiceNanny post.

I listened to the audio of her arrest on the Sheila Foggerty programme yesterday (LBC).

Initially the woman was shouting that she wasn’t part of the angry mob, that she’s got a pacemaker, that she was just minding her own business and happened to be walking down that road. As she got more & more angry (I would say aggressive from her voice) her truth came out. She shouted ‘I’ve come here because them babies were murderd’. So not just ‘happened to be walking down the street then’!

The clips shown in NiceNanny’s post, which I suppose are doing the SM rounds, don’t tell the whole story,

Yes she was walking down the street, yes part of the protest about the girls who were murdered. So you think it's OK for a 73 year old woman who said she had a pacemaker to be manhandled and handcuffed for doing nothing. Are we not allowed to peacefully protest like this lady was. Do you think it's OK. Definitely 2 tier policing. Police run away in Leeds but in the London protest manhandled and handcuff a 73 year old lady.

What about the other rioters in London and Southport etc.?

GrannyGravy13

We can agree that all riots are different, but we are interested in and understand the bigger picture (I really dislike that phrase)

I am interested in how we (societal we not GN) can/should enlighten the wider public, particularly those who are on the fringes far right/far left (not sure that all of those attending the protests in Southport have a political bent ).

Should there be politics taught from yr 7 in senior school, along with human rights etc., ?

Yes I agree more should be taught in schools re politics BUT it is hard, as we all know from here, not to let one’s own life experiences and political views cloud things.

I think it’s far more important to teach children, in age appropriate ways, to research, to question, to form their own independent views and to get them to understand that extremism and mindless violence and aggression is never acceptable.

Like it or not, there are more “far right” extremists causing problems, I echo the sentiments of those who say explore their social media, it’s utterly shocking and akin to social cleansing and I’m sorry to say this but Reform UK don’t help by “blaming” immigrants and small boats for every single woe in our country.

History lessons always have a good story to tell.

Easy to look at our history snd bring in our current values.

Holocaust, slavery, empire etc.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Yes GG13 I've always felt that "civics" as they say in the USA should be taught.

And agree with cossy when she says "When it comes to extreme groups though, at any end of the political ladder, these tend to be groups who appear to revel in thuggery and violence and will use any tiny excuse to “kick off” and I’m guessing that’s why different policing exists.

Early years onwards that should say.

But whose politics? What values do you want to be taught, I am pretty sure not everyone on the thread would be able to agree on that. I am not undermining your suggestions GG, just looking at the complexity of it. British values are taught from early years downwards, but the issues we are talking about are so complex.

Nicenanny3

I agree GrannyGravy13

Keir Starmer has poured oil on the fire with his speech by labelling everyone who are upset about certain aspects of life now in the UK as Far Right Thugs and I don't disbute there are thugs on both sides right and left.

Yes it certainly seems like 2 tier policing.

The security services have labeled these groups as far right.

Starmer is reiterating the security forces including the anti-terrorist forces.

We can agree that all riots are different, but we are interested in and understand the bigger picture (I really dislike that phrase)

I am interested in how we (societal we not GN) can/should enlighten the wider public, particularly those who are on the fringes far right/far left (not sure that all of those attending the protests in Southport have a political bent ).

Should there be politics taught from yr 7 in senior school, along with human rights etc., ?

GrannyGravy13

Like I posted upthread, I do not condone violence, I do not agree with violent protests/riots.

I am jut trying to understand why and how these folks feel like they do.

Throwing insults along with labelling will not help this situation, all probability it will escalate and inflame it.

I think it’s pretty hard sometimes.

A peaceful protest which gets out of hand can, due to emotions and passion, very easily escalate into violence. I think that’s why (imo) police are “softer” on Pride and Gaza marches, they also tend to be visible but “softer” at events like Nottinghill Carnival.

When it comes to extreme groups though, at any end of the political ladder, these tend to be groups who appear to revel in thuggery and violence and will use any tiny excuse to “kick off” and I’m guessing that’s why different policing exists.