Immigrants and expats

pascal30

I think they went out to much cheaper properties with a bit of a nest egg, and then found the reality of not being able to find jobs and the high cost of building materials eventually made life there impossible.. although they were all young at the time..

In the case of some of our relatives, they bought a very rundown (derelict) property which might otherwise have fallen down, have lovingly restored it, integrated into the village life there but still keep a flat here so that they can come over to see the grandchildren.
Thry had worked in Europe part of the time before they retired.

I know of another couple (not friends of ours but we met them a few times) who sold up in the UK, gave a lump sum to their son for his business and went to Spain. Their son's business folded, they wanted to come back from Spain but couldn't afford to.

I think that when people decide to emigrate, meticulous research needs to be done first - can you afford to live there comfortably for at least a couple of years without relying on any handouts. Can you afford healthcare. Do you have the necessary skills to find a good job. Are you prepared to just accept anything. Do you even speak the language.

I think they went out to much cheaper properties with a bit of a nest egg, and then found the reality of not being able to find jobs and the high cost of building materials eventually made life there impossible.. although they were all young at the time..

I think a lot of those also overspent on their French properties, pascal30. You needed to budget 3 times more than you first thought to restore and renovate. That's why French people weren't buying the wrecks!

Joseann

Witzend I agree.
However, I always felt that keeping a bolthole in the UK wasn't showing commitment to the new country chosen to live in. So in that respect I approve of emigrating lock, stock and barrel.
We lost tens of £1000s during the time house prices were soaring in the UK, but had luckily had the foresight to buy several properties in desirable locations abroad, not Spain, so we were able to sell quickly and rebuild our money pot in London.

I had several friends who sold up in English cities and bought in France in the 80's/90's .. they found after several years there that they wanted to move back but were completely priced out of the housing market.. prices in France had remained pretty stable.. they didn't have your foresight or extra money and are now renting in this country..

Joseann

Thanks growstuff. So, a bit like there being a group of "new Whites" in the Greek and Italian contingent of Europeans?
(Though I would have expected the more amorous horny southern group to have travelled north to do the impregnating!!)

Some Celtic tribes were fair (or red) haired with light skin and blue eyes, others were dark-skinned with dark hair and brown eyes.

Ditto some Eastern Europeans. Peopl from certain parts of Italy are blond, fair-skinned and blue-eyed.

Most of us are an amalgam.

Very nice, thanks Cadeby.
No, not an "immigrant" in the sense that I never intended to settle for good. And working from Day One and totally self sufficient. Just how it was.

Joseann

Witzend I agree.
However, I always felt that keeping a bolthole in the UK wasn't showing commitment to the new country chosen to live in. So in that respect I approve of emigrating lock, stock and barrel.
We lost tens of £1000s during the time house prices were soaring in the UK, but had luckily had the foresight to buy several properties in desirable locations abroad, not Spain, so we were able to sell quickly and rebuild our money pot in London.

Nice, several properties. So not an immigrant then?

Witzend I agree.
However, I always felt that keeping a bolthole in the UK wasn't showing commitment to the new country chosen to live in. So in that respect I approve of emigrating lock, stock and barrel.
We lost tens of £1000s during the time house prices were soaring in the UK, but had luckily had the foresight to buy several properties in desirable locations abroad, not Spain, so we were able to sell quickly and rebuild our money pot in London.

Why you live abroad is irrelevant in counting how many people from a specific nationality live in another country. It is the numbers that counts.

To me, ‘expats’ are those like me and dh, who for many years lived and worked abroad, but knew we’d eventually be returning to the U.K. And probably couldn’t have taken out local citizenship anyway, even if we’d wanted to.

TBH most of the people we know (retirees) who went to live ‘for good’ in e.g. Spain or Cyprus, returned to the U.K. sooner or later, because of illness or bereavement, or just because they really missed their children/grandchildren.

And some of those seriously regretted not having kept a bolthole in the U.K., after finding that property prices had soared, while they were having trouble selling their foreign home even for what they’d paid for it years previously.

dotpocka

stupid people have no idea that jesus in the quran
a messiah just
not the son of god
The Quran is the sacred scripture of Islam, and in it, more than ninety verses spread across fifteen chapters discuss Jesus.

Again that sentence "stupid people." Who are you to throw that around. Every person has a right o hav concerns. The k does not come into it whatsoever.

Thanks growstuff. So, a bit like there being a group of "new Whites" in the Greek and Italian contingent of Europeans?
(Though I would have expected the more amorous horny southern group to have travelled north to do the impregnating!!)

Indeed- my Italian grandmother was definitely " not quite white" to some people, apparently.
Ironically, most of her sons resembled her husband- pale skin, freckles, red hair, so very white ( possibly a throwback to those other pesky immigrants, the Vikings).

Joseann

Cadeby

As I said, its skin colour. Thats the difference.

I would imagine that a very long time ago, "white" people meant only those from England, The Netherlands, Ireland, Germany and Scandinavian countries. Probably even Italians and Greeks weren't included in this group earlier?

It wasn't until the nineteenth century that "whiteness" and the alleged superiority of northern Europe became an obsession, it was recognised that Romans and Greeks were southern European, so there was a hypotheses that some northern Europeans had travelled south and impregnated southern Europeans. Allegedly, they returned to northern Europe, but left their "superior" northern European genes behind.

PS. I'll check the sources - it was in the Adam Rutherford book I'm currently reading.

Thank you MOnica, so not a majority of British over pension age in Spain then, and the Birmingham article is from some years ago, after the Brexit vote and before the WARP agreement in 2020.
If you think that the big lifestyle migrant years were around 2004 then it would seem to be a population in decline. When we first came to Normandy there were lots of English voices in shops, particularly DiY stores. We never hear them now and a large number of people we knew have returned to the UK or died.
I do agree that we remain tied to the UK financially, depending on the fiscal management of the pension funds to which we contributed all our working lives.

284,000 British people lived in Spain in 2023, roughly 90, 000 each in Andalucia and region of Valencis. Another approx 90,000 spread out across the Canary Islands, Balearic Islands, Murcia and Catalonia. With balance spread across the rest of the occuntry. www.statista.com/statistics/1092683/british-population-in-spain-by-autonomous-community/

130,000 are over 60 www.birmingham.ac.uk/research/perspective/brexpats-impact-british-citizens-spain

Just out of interest MOnica how big is that majority of British over retirement age in Spain? Obviously the people I know are younger friends and colleagues of my son (though you could argue that he doesn't count as he now has Spanish nationality and consquently has had to give up British nationality). There are clearly still a lot of older British migrants on the Costas, but in Spain as a whole?

MOnica 👍🏻

Nobody I know who is a British person living in a EU voted leave, without exception they voted to remain. The reason is because all without exception are people of working age, working in the country they live in. Often their spouses are of the nationality of the country they now live in and many - following Brexit, took the nationality of their country of residence.

It needs to be remembered that the expat British population in Spain has an exceptional demographic. The majority are over retirement age and living on pension income. Many live in areas where there is high proportion of British people, where they can live as if they were in England and do not need ever to speak more than pidgen-Spanish. This description does not apply to the majority of British elsewhere in the EU.

1.2 million British citizens live in the EU, Spain accounts for only 25% of them.

Cadeby

As I said, its skin colour. Thats the difference.

I would imagine that a very long time ago, "white" people meant only those from England, The Netherlands, Ireland, Germany and Scandinavian countries. Probably even Italians and Greeks weren't included in this group earlier?

Yes, primarily, Oreo, and further back Senegal.

Joseann

^What do you mean by 'integrate'? And who are the immigrants^?
Yes, exactly. In France, I'm thinking specifically of generations of immigrants and their French born offspring who still face discrimination. This isn't just a recent problem, but they seem to be no further on in solving it.

Algerians and their descendants?

Urmstongran

Well sterling (sometimes) wasn’t doing too well BEFORE Brexit either! 🤣

There are other factors in the relative value of Sterling apart from Brexit.
Some would blame the weather on it if allowed.

What do you mean by 'integrate'? And who are the immigrants?
Yes, exactly. In France, I'm thinking specifically of generations of immigrants and their French born offspring who still face discrimination. This isn't just a recent problem, but they seem to be no further on in solving it.