Gransnet forums

News & politics

Immigrants and expats

(151 Posts)
varian Mon 05-Aug-24 17:31:47

The Leave vote of 2016 may be eight years ago, but the anti-immigrant mentality which drove it and was encouraged by the lies of the Leave campaigners is, sadly still amongst us.

"Most UK citizens living in Spain voted Remain. But a substantial minority voted to Leave. And even if that minority was only 10%, that's over 30,000 people.

So the question is, why? The answer is because there are too many foreigners in England.

No. I'm not making this up. They have no sense of irony.

My response is always, “But you're a foreigner living in Spain!”

Answer, “No, I'm an expat.”

“What's the difference?”

“Foreigners in England live off the state. They take our jobs, our welfare and use our NHS for free.* Expats in Spain contribute to the economy. In fact, without Expats the Spanish economy would collapse.**”

I'm not kidding. These are the words of dozens of British people living in Spain. If you don't believe me, read some Expat Facebook pages. They're still saying it.

*I know that's not true. EU citizens contribute, on average, 10% more to the UK economy than British citizens and are far less likely to require any government support in the form of benefits or social services. Furthermore, because they generally earn more, EU citizens pay much more in taxes and National Insurance towards government services. That includes paying towards the NHS, which they hardly use, because most of them are young and fit.

**This assertion is also untrue. The UK expat economy in Spain is less than 1% of GDP. But because these people live in predominantly English-speaking ghettos, they imagine the English influence in Spain to be far greater than it actually is."

www.quora.com/Why-did-some-Brits-who-live-in-Spain-vote-for-Brexit

maddyone Mon 05-Aug-24 17:46:32

Can we stop banging on about Brexit please. I voted for remain, but I’m fed up of people moaning about Brexit. It’s happened and we have to accept it.

Cadeby Mon 05-Aug-24 17:55:40

Whats the difference? Skin colour.

fancythat Mon 05-Aug-24 17:58:04

By not accepting something, people remain in their own misery.

varian Mon 05-Aug-24 18:00:11

This is not about brexit. It is about the mentality of people who make these distinctions between immigrants and expats.

Oreo Mon 05-Aug-24 18:00:12

maddyone

Can we stop banging on about Brexit please. I voted for remain, but I’m fed up of people moaning about Brexit. It’s happened and we have to accept it.

This
The bitterness never ends.

rafichagran Mon 05-Aug-24 18:02:42

fancythat

By not accepting something, people remain in their own misery.

I love this quote. I voted Remain, but the EU vote was 8 years ago. I have moved on.

varian Mon 05-Aug-24 18:18:04

So is there no difference between people originally from the UK, who live in another country, and regard themselves as "expats" and people, originally from another country who now live in the UK but are called "immigrants"?

Joseann Mon 05-Aug-24 18:20:46

There is a difference. When I arrived to work in France, people called me an "expatriée". I was in the system, I paid taxes. You should have heard what they had to say about "immigrés". This was long before 2016, long before Brexit, so the anti immigrant mentality is universal.

MaizieD Mon 05-Aug-24 18:22:57

As today's situation, rioting and racism, is a direct result of the Brexit vote I think it's fine for varian to raise it.

I also think that Gnet's amateur psychologists should keep their diagnoses to themselves.

Mamie Mon 05-Aug-24 18:36:00

As a migrant in France I have to disagree here. The research done by the wonderful British in Europe group, who worked so hard to preserve our rights after Brexit, found that a majority of us did not vote for Brexit and that younger working people in Europe far outnumbered retirees. Many of those in Spain who were surveyed and interviewed were later found to be second home owners.
There was a great deal of lazy journalism at the time which made the worry and uncertainty of Brexit far worse.
Frankly we don't need anymore stereotyping.

Aveline Mon 05-Aug-24 18:42:15

I don't agree that the current outburst of rioting is due to Brexit.
There was and remains no problem with all the various other nationalities that came here eg Polish, Chinese, Sikh, Indian, Slovakian, Bulgarian etc etc. Similarly no problem with Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist and most other religions and beliefs. The current riots seem to me to be very focused on Muslim people. Why?

Mamie Mon 05-Aug-24 18:46:48

I would never use the word expat, apart from for people working abroad for a company based in their home country. We are migrants.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 05-Aug-24 18:47:57

Aveline

I don't agree that the current outburst of rioting is due to Brexit.
There was and remains no problem with all the various other nationalities that came here eg Polish, Chinese, Sikh, Indian, Slovakian, Bulgarian etc etc. Similarly no problem with Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist and most other religions and beliefs. The current riots seem to me to be very focused on Muslim people. Why?

Social media.

Cossy Mon 05-Aug-24 18:48:54

varian

So is there no difference between people originally from the UK, who live in another country, and regard themselves as "expats" and people, originally from another country who now live in the UK but are called "immigrants"?

None whatsoever Except l, for some reason, Brits abroad sometimes feel superior!

Doodledog Mon 05-Aug-24 19:02:15

maddyone

Can we stop banging on about Brexit please. I voted for remain, but I’m fed up of people moaning about Brexit. It’s happened and we have to accept it.

It has, and we do. But let's also extend that to the election result?

varian Mon 05-Aug-24 19:23:18

Mamie

As a migrant in France I have to disagree here. The research done by the wonderful British in Europe group, who worked so hard to preserve our rights after Brexit, found that a majority of us did not vote for Brexit and that younger working people in Europe far outnumbered retirees. Many of those in Spain who were surveyed and interviewed were later found to be second home owners.
There was a great deal of lazy journalism at the time which made the worry and uncertainty of Brexit far worse.
Frankly we don't need anymore stereotyping.

The article I quoted clearly stated that the majority of Brits in Spain voted Remain, so this is not about them.

It is about the curious mentality of those who lived in the EU at the time of the referendum, yet chose to limit their own freedom to do so.

I have lived abroad and I suppose, considered myself an expat, rather than an immigrant. This was in the 1970s. I suppose it was in part because we never regarded our stay there as permanent.

One of the British friends we made then has lived for most of his life abroad. Is he still an expat or would the folk around him regard him as an immigrant?

Is there actually any difference?

Aveline Mon 05-Aug-24 19:48:11

WWMk2. Social media is people communicating online. Just saying 'social media' doesn't answer my question. What is it about Muslims that gives rise to such strong feelings in a way that all the other many races and religions just doesn't?

Cossy Mon 05-Aug-24 19:55:45

Aveline

*WWMk2*. Social media is people communicating online. Just saying 'social media' doesn't answer my question. What is it about Muslims that gives rise to such strong feelings in a way that all the other many races and religions just doesn't?

Because of rhetoric, and in some cases downright lies about our Moslem Communities.

“They won’t integrate”
“They want us all to convert to Islam”
“They all support ISIS”
“They all support honour killings”
“They don’t want us to have Christmas and Easter”
“They want us all to adopt Sharia Law”
And so it goes on…

Lies and myths perpetuated by fear and ignorance, probably by many people who have never spoken to a Muslim in their lives.

pascal30 Mon 05-Aug-24 19:58:35

Maybe it is something to do with 9/11 or the fact that a lot of terrorists in films and tv series are shown to be muslims.. It seems to be a quite deep rooted fear.. and I'm not sure how that can be changed even though the actual religion is based on peace..

Allsorts Mon 05-Aug-24 20:01:38

What a very unpleasant, divisive post and no wonder we have problems.,

Aveline Mon 05-Aug-24 20:03:17

They don't all seem to be lies or myths but are truths about some Muslims but not all of course. This patchwork of perspectives must underpin the current riots. Plus the fact that summertime riots seem to be something that happens here. Bored lads looking for a fight, any fight on these hot summer days. I don't know.

Aveline Mon 05-Aug-24 20:06:32

I should say I've spent time in a Muslim country and had long interesting chats about religion and life with people there. I formed a very positive view of Islam then returned home and over the next few years found rather a different picture.

Chocolatelovinggran Mon 05-Aug-24 20:09:52

I understand that the gentleman who calls himself Tommy Robinson is living in Spain now. I wonder how he describes himself?

Farzanah Mon 05-Aug-24 20:23:30

pascal30

Maybe it is something to do with 9/11 or the fact that a lot of terrorists in films and tv series are shown to be muslims.. It seems to be a quite deep rooted fear.. and I'm not sure how that can be changed even though the actual religion is based on peace..

By getting to know a few people of Muslim faith personally because I guess many who have this supposed “deep rooted fear” do not know a single one.