False information and incitement on SM and prosecuting the perpetrators

LizzieDrip

I agree WW, Islamophobia should be on a par with Anti-Semitism in terms of the law.

I would like to see the Labour government address this. In fact, I’m going to write to my MP asking him to raise it in the HoC👍

I agree: in order to have prosecutions backed by full force of the law.

Doodledog

*That is on an individuals mindset though. If you strongly believe one set of values, it is difficult to accept any other.*
Not necessarily. The first thing I do when faced with something I find unconscionable is to try to see it from the point of view of the person who said/wrote it. It’s the only way to understand - even if you want to dispute it you have to understand where they are coming from. There is often some common ground as a starting point, which can cut through a knee-jerk reaction.

Goodwin's views aren't "knee jerk". He holds very firm right wing views and has been consistent for a number of years.

Freya5

growstuff

BevSec

Growstuff, I have, as yet, only just started the book, but so far his writing has seemed very moderate, balanced and dispassionate to me. Its better really to have more of an open mind by being able to see different sides to a debate than just your own point of view. It makes for more toleration of others in my opinion.

Which is precisely why I do read what he writes and I find him unbalanced.

That is on an individuals mindset though. If you strongly believe one set of values, it is difficult to accept any other.

Which is precisely what I would say about Matt Goodwin. He co-authored a book with Rob Ford about the referendum result. It was well-researched and the two of them made a number of hypotheses about the reasons for the result. That book was factual and well-balanced.

Since then, Goodwin has become ever more extreme and unbalanced in his views. He and Ford have fallen out and have occasional online disagreements for all to see. Goodwin no longer even claims to be "balanced" in his views.

That is on an individuals mindset though. If you strongly believe one set of values, it is difficult to accept any other.
Not necessarily. The first thing I do when faced with something I find unconscionable is to try to see it from the point of view of the person who said/wrote it. It’s the only way to understand - even if you want to dispute it you have to understand where they are coming from. There is often some common ground as a starting point, which can cut through a knee-jerk reaction.

I haven’t a clue what he’s said, certainly nothing that I’ve heard anyway, but maybe that’s because I don’t go looking for it. And I’m not going to start now, I’ve got better things to do.

growstuff

BevSec

Growstuff, I have, as yet, only just started the book, but so far his writing has seemed very moderate, balanced and dispassionate to me. Its better really to have more of an open mind by being able to see different sides to a debate than just your own point of view. It makes for more toleration of others in my opinion.

Which is precisely why I do read what he writes and I find him unbalanced.

That is on an individuals mindset though. If you strongly believe one set of values, it is difficult to accept any other.

Mt61

I haven’t read on here, that anyone has called a person for the colour of their skin, or persuaded anyone to go out & riot- unless posts have been taken down before I have had chance to read them.
I have a had a few post taken down, a couple I’ve had removed because I’ve posted too soon (but looks like it’s been removed for some other reason). There is nothing wrong in having a healthy debate about what’s a fact- too much illegal migration, simply because we haven’t the infrastructure- nothing wrong in saying that whatsoever. You will find thousands of mums, dads, grandparents & younger generation have voted for Reform, if the voting system had have been different/ fairer Reform would have had more seats. It’s not a crime to vote Reform. I bet 99% of these voters are horrified by the mindset of these thugs, who certainly should be imprisoned. Reform is certainly not a far right group, in my mind more like the Tories of old- if they don’t come up to parr, then I won’t be voting for them next time round- but I definitely will never vote Labour

Yet it is Farage himself who has been fanning the flames of the of these riots . Shame on him and Elon Musk .

JaneJudge

Freya5

JaneJudge

You can talk about immigration and politics but this is about outsiders trying to destroy our communities. Organised violence carried out by people from outside in our towns whilst they all return to their villages. It is senseless and unnecessary and is a problem. How anyone can support this is beyond me.

Maybe if these violent men integrated more they'd have less to fear

Integration works both ways wouldn't you say.

Yes it does and so does ignorance.

Wrt these 'riots' because lets face it, they aren't marches or protests, it is Islamophobia. They are marching in certain areas to cause trouble otherwise they would stick to High streets surely, not residential areas. It is targeted abuse. The people who live in the houses must be so frightened

Are you calling me ignorant !!

Wrt these 'riots' because lets face it, they aren't marches or protests, it is Islamophobia.

There isn't even much logic to the 'Islamphobic' motive. I'm told that the small town local to me is one of today's targets. A town where the immigrant population is practically zero. A few Asian small shopkeepers and takeaway food outlets is the extent of 'diversity'' in that town... Any 'protest' gathering will be just performative and any 'rioting' would be sheer badness...

BevSec

Very good article by Richard Littlejohn in the Daily Mail this morning. Labour are blaming everything on “the far right”. He thinks exactly as I do on so many issues but can express them far, far better than .i can. Worth a read if only for a more balanced point of view.

Balance, yes needed much on here.

Islamaphobia is on a par with antisemitism. Racism is illegal wherever it is found.

Freya5

JaneJudge

You can talk about immigration and politics but this is about outsiders trying to destroy our communities. Organised violence carried out by people from outside in our towns whilst they all return to their villages. It is senseless and unnecessary and is a problem. How anyone can support this is beyond me.

Maybe if these violent men integrated more they'd have less to fear

Integration works both ways wouldn't you say.

Yes it does and so does ignorance.

Wrt these 'riots' because lets face it, they aren't marches or protests, it is Islamophobia. They are marching in certain areas to cause trouble otherwise they would stick to High streets surely, not residential areas. It is targeted abuse. The people who live in the houses must be so frightened

I agree WW, Islamophobia should be on a par with Anti-Semitism in terms of the law.

I would like to see the Labour government address this. In fact, I’m going to write to my MP asking him to raise it in the HoC👍

Freya5

JaneJudge

You can talk about immigration and politics but this is about outsiders trying to destroy our communities. Organised violence carried out by people from outside in our towns whilst they all return to their villages. It is senseless and unnecessary and is a problem. How anyone can support this is beyond me.

Maybe if these violent men integrated more they'd have less to fear

Integration works both ways wouldn't you say.

Have you never met people who just don't want to integrate into mainstream society? In many cases, they're harmless and just want to get on with their lives, but there are some who actively want to attack mainstream society because they're nobodies in it, but being attackers gives them self-importance.

Yes you are probably right in that WW and I think with the spate of current violence, it's more a case of irrational hate for the sake of hating people who are different, such as anti semitism. It's just that I feel phobia is more of a feeling of fear.

terribull Islamaphobia is not formalised in British law.

Anti-semitism is.

We should afford them the same courtesy.

JaneJudge

You can talk about immigration and politics but this is about outsiders trying to destroy our communities. Organised violence carried out by people from outside in our towns whilst they all return to their villages. It is senseless and unnecessary and is a problem. How anyone can support this is beyond me.

Maybe if these violent men integrated more they'd have less to fear

Integration works both ways wouldn't you say.

I would have thought Islamaphobia is self explanatory, phobia being an irrational fear.

That fear isn't completely unfounded if homegrown terror attacks such as London 7/7, 56 fatalities, Manchester Arena 23 fatalities to give two examples have occured. When the news of the thwarted terror attack of planes crossing the Atlantic, I had a fear of getting on planes after that, I didn't particularly fancy going up to a main London theatre after Bataclan I had a fear of travelling about London at the height of the IRA bombing campaign, even though no such label as IRAaphobia was attached at that time, but certainly people had such phobias. Bins were removed from stations to quell fears, people were edgy and twitchy getting on to packed trains back then. Men chuck their rucksacks up in luggage racks, who knows whether their owner is there with them, that was another phobia/fear, of mine, call it what you will.

Having said that I don't wish to conflate fears and phobias with the wave of hatred directed against the Muslim population which is abhorrent, anarchic and I see those who carry out such actions as trying to destabalise community relations. As with any atrocity carried out by offshoots one can't attribute that to that demographic as a whole. I imagine it's fair to say that the majority of peaceful Muslims have their own phobias against those who are perpetuating the current round of attacks on the street and they would be justified. Any atrocity that produces mass fatalities/casualties against random strangers, will produce fears. Ensuing fears can at times be irrational and irrational fears equal phobias.

I’m beginning to feel confident that the government and authorities have definitely got a handle on the situation now.

I’m sure there will continue to be unrest for a while, but the 6000 standing army of riot police has been mobilised and gradually the dregs will be mopped up or crawl back into their holes.

The courts have stepped up, and sentences will be handed down, and everyone can get back to normal.

But - I do think there are serious issues to be resolved for some British people.

Once parliament begins I think what is needed a a definition of what it means to be Islamaphobic - would you believe that whilst we all know what anti-semitism means and the lines over which it is not acceptable to step over, no such courtesy has been given to Muslims in the U.K.
This must be done as a matter of urgency, alongside the long road of education for people who don’t think that Black Lives Matter, or Islam is a “threat to the British way of life”.

It is ignorance like this that has fuelled the ability for far right thuggery to operate alongside the use of SM, which governments must get to grips with, and I’m sure they will.

Meanwhile we prepare for another few days thuggery, but this time forewarned is forarmed, and I suspect that the thugs will be much more easily dealt with and whisked out of sight in double quick time.

Ever onwards.

The British are not that easily cowed or persuaded that decency doesn’t matter, and every British citizen deserves a life of peace and harmony.

So sorry, JJ.

Thank you Doodledog - powerful song. Often music just hits the spot doesn’t it. Gave me a little tear in my eye🥲

Thank you biglouis & Wyllow for the petition link. Signed👍

JaneJudge please stay safe tomorrow. Hopefully they might not turn up🤞

The edl are doing a planned March here tomorrow 😭 we all live here happily. I hate them

Thank you biglouis, your ref didnt ring up the start page for me so here it is just in case others have the same problem.

www.change.org/p/demand-regulatory-measures-on-social-media-platforms

Casdon

I’m impressed with speed at which the courts are dealing with rioters. So many hundreds of people have wrecked their own lives as well as other peoples. In the cold light of day, when they are sat in prison cells, I wonder if they will still think it was the right thing to do.

Me too Casdon most remanded in custody too and some having their pictures published on MSM.

There is a petition on Change Org to regulate the social media platforms from the spread of disinformation.

Signed and donated.

Hope this works.

www.change.org/p/demand-regulatory-measures-on-social-media-platforms/psf/share?cs_tk=AoXUcbTkIiuWOYWGu2YAAXicyyvNyQEABF8BvMnKVRI2XiGzKuzpUJTB8bE%3D&pt=AVBldGl0aW9uAF1ENx0AAAAAZrJMBIouPkg4MjVkZjhkYw%3D%3D&source_location=aa_augmented_sign_ask&utm_campaign=01c7a74e81d349a789a76d807110400a&utm_content=initial_v0_0_6&utm_medium=email&utm_source=aa_augmented_sign_ask&utm_term=cs