School Bombed in Gaza

I really don't think that Gaza can come back from this, has been flattened and too many people have been slaughtered. Within the next few years any Palestinians left standing will be forced to live in a refugee camp within their own land surrounded by barbed wire and the rest of it will militarised by the IDF and in time inhabited by Israelis, is a land grab nothing less.

Anniebach

Then Palestine’s murders of the Israeli Olympic team Munich
1972 was justified ?

Can we start with the pogroms , or the holocaust, we can go back further ?

Murdering anyone, anywhere, for any reason is NOT acceptable, imo.

maddyone that is my intense hope.

I wonder about an International Peace Keeping Force from the UN, but I don’t think either side would accept.

Yes a very difficult ask of the international community

The option of any regime in Israel staying and '"policing" Gaza would be a de facto military occupation of the region. Isn't it likely that would increase tensions in Gaza not decrease in order to re build. How would Jordan and Egypt react? What do ordinary Palestinians want?

How many Israeli people want to see their sons and daughters in the IDF in large numbers permanently? What about security on other borders?

“What might work .....as to who reconstructs Gaza, how it would be run, whether further Israeli settlements in Gaza would be precluded, whether the West Bank Settlers will carry on, whether Netanyahu really wants a settlement, what Hamas is prepared to compromise on ..... how much other countries will give as aid or even peacekeeping.”

Hamas want Israel to leave Gaza leaving Hamas in control.
I will be extremely surprised if Israel agree to that, as to who else is going to police Gaza, nobody is going to touch that with a barge pole, it’s a poisoned chalice, getting between Hamas and Israel will be a nightmare

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gex1rl6q5o
gives

Current peace talks - reading up in my very limited way

hard to know what either side want beyond a ceasefire and a hostage/prisoner exchange. Talks are going on atm and Hamas are involved in the talks.

What might work .....as to who reconstructs Gaza, how it would be run, whether further Israeli settlements in Gaza would be precluded, whether the West Bank Settlers will carry on, whether Netanyahu really wants a settlement, what Hamas is prepared to compromise on ..... how much other countries will give as aid or even peacekeeping.

Just hope some of the negotiators have practical ideas.

Indeed Mollygo.
What I think Hamas wouldn’t do, is release all the hostages. Probably they would release some hostages, but not all. I realise this is just my opinion, but that’s what I think. Without the release of all the hostages (dead or alive) I think it unlikely that Israel will negotiate. That’s why I’m worried about all out war in the region.

I read all these posts most carefully.
I’ve read about the history, but that doesn’t help with the present situation.
I am not happy with what is going on on Gaza any more than others.

However,
I haven’t seen anyone post a viable solution to the problem and no one seems to have any idea what Hamas would do if Israel declared the ceasefire that people are calling for.

Before the establishment of the state of Israel people of Jewish, Arab, and Christian origin lived alongside each there under the British Protectorate established 1922.

You could say they were all "indigenous" except because of a promise made by Balfour in 1917 numbers of Jewish settlers arrived after 1922 and there were tensions between different groups under British rule

www.nam.ac.uk/explore/conflict-Palestine

“In 1917, in order to win Jewish support for Britain'sFirst World War effort,the British Balfour Declaration promised the establishment of a Jewish national home in Ottoman-controlled Palestine.

*However, the British had also promised Arab nationalists that a united Arab country, covering most of the Arab Middle East, would result if the Ottoman Turks were defeated.
When the fighting ended in 1918, with the Ottoman Empire defeated on every front, neither promise was delivered*

You are not saying that the indigenous Muslim Palestianian population should have 'integrated' to the Jewish settlers? Or that Jewish settlers should have become Muslims?

Who migrated, in this case?

Migration only works when the populations integrate, if they remain as two or more more separate cultures, there is going to be conflict at some stage, we see this in many countries including Israel.
Israel is meant to be a secular state, it hasnt worked out that way

If we have to start somewhere, it's indeed the end of WW2, and the setting up of an Israeli State but not giving the Palestinians any State or indeed status.

Asking for trouble from the start when different groups all claimed the lands were "theirs"

If you look at a map of the area and see the tiny strip that is Gaza, isolated from the West Bank....

add in the pre-existing conflict between different groups in the area, none of this is a surprise - its a devastating historical tragedy.

I have always supported a homeland for Jewish peoples, but that doesnt mean I support everything some Israelis have done unequivocally.

I started seeing it as problematic in 1967 but had such hopes in the 1990's that peace initiatives would prosper.

Then Palestine’s murders of the Israeli Olympic team Munich
1972 was justified ?

Can we start with the pogroms , or the holocaust, we can go back further ?

What did it say?

I just wanted to say that the October attacks by Hamas in Israel didn't just come out of nothing.

The historical build up of occupation and settling in Gaza by some Israeli's since 1967 is relevant as to the build up of Hamas in Gaza. We cant - imo - just start the discussion clock on October 2023.

Peace efforts: this gives a summary of current ceasefire negotiations.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gex1rl6q5o

Fleurpepper

Could you post a link Wwm2, please

My iPad doesn’t do links, but you must be able to find it on BBC sounds or some such.

Hussain wiped the floor with him. And he called her a Hamas propagandist 😄😄. It was dreadful and very embarrassing.

Could you post a link Wwm2, please

No

Anyone listen to the today programme this morning with Mishal Hussain interviewing an Israeli representative?

Blimey!

I haven’t read all the thread yet (I’m about to go out) but will read later. I just want to say I’m extremely worried about the whole situation in the Middle East. I’m afraid of all out war breaking out.
I’ll read the thread when I get back.

Fleurpepper

This thread is about just another bombing, by Israel, of a SCHOOL in Gaza. They won't rest until they have wiped out all the Palestinian Muslims- and taken all thee land.

If you can't or won't see this, then what can I say.

The whole situation is dreadful and I don’t know what will satisfy both sides to end it.

So what do you propose as a solution?

If Israel stop their determination to root out Hamas, do you suppose Hamas will just sit back and say it’s all over?

Are you certain that a group who started this without any concern the Israelis that they killed, raped, or kidnapped
or concern for the backlash that would inevitably affect Palestinians will now give up and admit they were at fault in the first place?

This thread is about just another bombing, by Israel, of a SCHOOL in Gaza. They won't rest until they have wiped out all the Palestinian Muslims- and taken all thee land.

If you can't or won't see this, then what can I say.

Wyllow3

It's important to make it clear in posts the difference between criticising the current regime in Israel and its actions, and anti-semitic statements. Out there on parts of social media there is anti semitism just as there are other "hate" posts as we've seen in the UK.

Oh the anti-semitism out there on SM is rife and disgusting.

Fleurpepper

pascal30

He will not stop until Palestine is completely wiped out, then he'll extend Israel onto that land...and the awful thing that all nations will have on their consciences is that no=one stopped him..

And until now, anyone saying this on social media, has been deleted and even banned, because of systematic reporting and accusation of antisemitism.

You mean Gaza?
It’s actually hamas who won’t rest until they’ve wiped out all the Jews.Palestinians live in Israel alongside Jews and aren’t siding with hamas.
No nation is going to help hamas, they’re a terrorist group.
The only thing I don’t agree with is for years the Jewish settlers have been pushing into the West Bank.It was stopped years ago and then began again.