Tory leadership contest

😄😄 she can see which way the wind is blowing - and it isn’t towards the right.

I guess she reckons that most of the 100 odd MPs are not so right wing as some in her party. She’s going to come unstuck with the lunatic membership though who are probably desperate for Farage to be on offer.

I'm interested to what the other contenders come up with. I was getting the impression that they were all going rightwards and for leaving the ECHR. This from Patel is quite unexpected.

I'm interested in the contest. We need a decent opposition party.

I'm astonished to hear Patels words but they are clearly pitching to the middle ground to draw a line between the conservatives and Reform.

Well the times they are a changing, could be that the Tories can now see that the electorate are not as right wing as their far right attack dogs thought they were. Pretty obvs by the way the nation voted that the same old tune they have been singing since Brexit is no longer popular. Right now the nation prefers the centre ground politically, which is why Labour moved to the centre, away from the left. So it makes sense for those looking to lead the party successfully to temper their rhetoric and show a more centrist side.
I imagine this is why Suella dropped out.

Interesting.

Do you (anyone) think that people can change their political orientation so quickly? I know that people can and do drift across the spectrum as their lives change, but I'm a bit suspicious of this.

I also understand that politicians might want to be further along (in either direction) than the political situation they are in allows, so have to temper their promises, or pull back from what they've said before. But the point is that if they could, they would stick to their principles.

Can leopards change their spots so quickly? I'm trying to remember who it was, but one of Margaret Thatcher's cabinet was on TV recently (I think it might have been Kenneth Clarke, but I'm not sure?) and he said that both Patel and Braverman are further right than Thatcher. Is it reasonable to think that PP has changed so much so quickly?

I don't know. Maybe a good politician is one who 'reads the room' and passes laws that the electorate want? It rarely works like that though, as although very many people think they are moderate and in the centre, most of us further towards one end of it or the other. We might not want extremes, but at root we either believe in collectivism with the strong looking after the weak or individualism and people looking out for themselves. There is little middle ground, really, as these principles underpin our world view, and are diametrically opposed.

It was Chris Patten. The interview is on Youtube - if you google Chris Patten Newsnight you will find it.

Some politicians craftily change to what they think will get them the top job, think Boris Johnson.I think that PP is in the same mould tbh.
Surely they have to go slightly more right wing tho, to counteract the attraction Reform has for future voters?
I think Starmer has captured the centre ground, just as Blair did.

To get anywhere though, the candidates have to convince their membership, who, judging by their previous choices, are not the most level headed voters.

They could go either way couldn't they? Go further right in the hope of gaining/keeping Reform voters, or, stay more centrist in the hope of getting voters back from Labour.

Patel seems to have gone for the latter option.

There don't seem to be any GN tory voters interested in the leadership campaign yet

Whitewavemark2

To get anywhere though, the candidates have to convince their membership, who, judging by their previous choices, are not the most level headed voters.

They changed the rules for Sunak, though, didn't they?

I wonder how the new intake of MPs breaks down between right and centrist. If the PLP's vote is the most influential looking at them could give a clue as to the tory's future direction.

I think that many of them will change what they say they think, but that’s not the same thing.

MaizieD

They could go either way couldn't they? Go further right in the hope of gaining/keeping Reform voters, or, stay more centrist in the hope of getting voters back from Labour.

Patel seems to have gone for the latter option.

There don't seem to be any GN tory voters interested in the leadership campaign yet

I’m not entirely convinced that the Tory membership are very centrist, unless they’ve had a Damascene moment!

They would vote for Farage like a shot, given the opportunity.

Doodledog

Interesting.

Do you (anyone) think that people can change their political orientation so quickly? I know that people can and do drift across the spectrum as their lives change, but I'm a bit suspicious of this.

I also understand that politicians might want to be further along (in either direction) than the political situation they are in allows, so have to temper their promises, or pull back from what they've said before. But the point is that if they could, they would stick to their principles.

Can leopards change their spots so quickly? I'm trying to remember who it was, but one of Margaret Thatcher's cabinet was on TV recently (I think it might have been Kenneth Clarke, but I'm not sure?) and he said that both Patel and Braverman are further right than Thatcher. Is it reasonable to think that PP has changed so much so quickly?

I don't know. Maybe a good politician is one who 'reads the room' and passes laws that the electorate want? It rarely works like that though, as although very many people think they are moderate and in the centre, most of us further towards one end of it or the other. We might not want extremes, but at root we either believe in collectivism with the strong looking after the weak or individualism and people looking out for themselves. There is little middle ground, really, as these principles underpin our world view, and are diametrically opposed.

For me, she’s simply projecting a new image, one that will satisfy those who may elect her!

MaizieD

They could go either way couldn't they? Go further right in the hope of gaining/keeping Reform voters, or, stay more centrist in the hope of getting voters back from Labour.

Patel seems to have gone for the latter option.

There don't seem to be any GN tory voters interested in the leadership campaign yet

I suspect that any Tory GNetters who are interested in the campaign don’t want to get into yet more confrontation on threads, which I can understand, as I’m fed up with it too.

I can’t see the MPs wanting to go further right, the riots have proved conclusively that that isn’t the mood of the country, if they had doubts before. I can though see a few defections to Reform, which would ultimately be to the good for the party’s future cohesiveness. There isn’t a stand out leadership candidate at the moment, so I still think they would be better going for the best for now rather than somebody they think can lead them to the next election.
There are only 26 new MPs, but maybe one of them has the leadership attributes once they have settled in - or perhaps Penny Mordaunt will be back?

I suspect that any Tory GNetters who are interested in the campaign don’t want to get into yet more confrontation on threads, which I can understand, as I’m fed up with it too

100% this.
I’m not bothering anymore with these political threads.
Absolutely no point.

There isn’t any point in confrontational posts (from either side), and I agree that there has been such a lot of them lately that it is spoiling the atmosphere on here. I hope we don’t reach the stage of No Debate though, as that would kill off GN just as quickly.

I also think that a lot of posters are likely to be having a lie in😀. It’s Sunday after all.

Whitewavemark2

To get anywhere though, the candidates have to convince their membership, who, judging by their previous choices, are not the most level headed voters.

I have been away, avoided GN and all news outlets.

Come back and still the same insults regarding Tory voters and Conservative Party members…

Exactly.

Just don’t rise to it.
Let them get on with it and chat amongst themselves.

GG13 well you might not know that GSM seems to have been disappeared altogether from the forum. A sad loss to lively debate. There seems to have been some disagreement about curling tongs and Downtown Abbey and now GSM is not posting……

ronib

GG13 well you might not know that GSM seems to have been disappeared altogether from the forum. A sad loss to lively debate. There seems to have been some disagreement about curling tongs and Downtown Abbey and now GSM is not posting……

I knew she had been sent to the naughty step , didn’t realise it was permanent though.

GG13 I have no idea of how long the exclusion is unless it’s voluntary to preserve her own sanity.

I suspect that any Tory GNetters who are interested in the campaign don’t want to get into yet more confrontation on threads, which I can understand, as I’m fed up with it too. 👍

I also think that a lot of posters are likely to be having a lie in😀. It’s Sunday after all.

It's the final day of The Olympics too. I'm interested in the Tory leadership, but I'm not going to let posts on here spoil my enjoyment of the ceremony in Paris today. I'm pleased everything has gone off well.

Taking a break for your own sanity is a very good Idea.
I joined GN when I became a grandmother as I thought it would be nice to spend some time with like minded people.
In my innocence, I thought it would be nice and genteel, a place for chatting about our grandchildren and the various ups and downs of family life. Didn’t think for one minute it would be as political as it is. The active convos are often dominated by political threads.

In short - I thought it would be a nice escape for an hour or two a week.
And that’s not me being ageist ( I’m 61 myself! )

Entirely my own fault, but I found myself getting dragged into political debates, and worked out that on just one day spent over 5 hours on GN on the same thread!

GN really can get the better of you, and can certainly suck so much time out of you, it’s sometimes good to take a break, or just avoid certain boards altogether.

Anyway, I’ll shut up now as don’t want to send you all back to sleep

Good post, doodledog.

Maybe a good politician is one who 'reads the room' and passes laws that the electorate want?
Yes, because they are supposed to represent the electorate, not tell voters what they should think. They also need to be able to convince party members of course.

at root we either believe in collectivism with the strong looking after the weak or individualism and people looking out for themselves
A bit of both is what I would hope for. Entrepreneurs are as necessary to a successful society as caring/teaching professions (etc). I don’t think these ideas need to be totally or always diametrically opposed. I think they can and should complement each other.