Why do Asylum Seekers cross the channel on small boats

Today's article in the Times about Afghan soldiers who were trained by and served with the British army in Afghanistan who want to join the British army. They are working as cleaners and Deliveroo drivers because they have to be in the UK for 5 years before being eligible to apply.

www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/afghan-soldiers-prevented-from-joining-stretched-british-army-for-5-years-kqr3v0ckv

Grannygravy - I appreciate your family’s military service. I completely understand the need to check out as far as is possible, the history of people from Afghanistan as far as is possible.
I’m not sure men fleeing Afghanistan would bring paperwork as if they’re intercepted by the Taliban they wouldn’t be continuing their journey
As a woman with daughters, I’d want out of Afghanistan, whether or not I’d worked with the Americans or Brits - if I was an immigration judge, I struggle to see how I could refuse women or girls asylum. Gay people also aren’t Accepted by the Taliban - ‘sending them back’ isn’t a simple issue
Im sure you’re well aware of the complexity. Also that you know more clearly than I do the likely problems if we are infiltrated by Taliban fighters disguised as asylum seekers

foxie48

"Not every Afghani is a member of the Taliban, but many were and still are."

Those who are not a member of the Taliban have every reason to want to get out of Afghanistan especially if they worked for the British and will have a genuine reason for claiming asylum. Currently they account for about 20% of those arriving by small boats.

If they have their paperwork and can give details of when where they were and what corps they assisted then it shouldn’t take long to prove their identity and grant them leave to remain.

"Not every Afghani is a member of the Taliban, but many were and still are."

Those who are not a member of the Taliban have every reason to want to get out of Afghanistan especially if they worked for the British and will have a genuine reason for claiming asylum. Currently they account for about 20% of those arriving by small boats.

Casdon

I’m sure you’re right GrannyGravy13, but presumably the Home Office will be verifying the claims against the records kept by our forces of their aid, to ensure that the asylum seekers’ credentials stack up? There was acknowledgment at the time that not all eligible Afghans were helped, remember those awful scenes at the airport?

I cannot forget those scenes.

The USA set a date to withdraw and the U.K. was not equipped to remain on its own. (We had been closing down FOB’s and Bases in the preceding months)

I’m sure you’re right GrannyGravy13, but presumably the Home Office will be verifying the claims against the records kept by our forces of their aid, to ensure that the asylum seekers’ credentials stack up? There was acknowledgment at the time that not all eligible Afghans were helped, remember those awful scenes at the airport?

Our AC served in Afghanistan.

What Freya5 said is true, there were 457 U.K. service personnel killed in Afghanistan 405 of which were killed by hostile forces.

7,436 were injured requiring hospitalisation in field hospitals.
616 serious casualties in action

Not every Afghani is a member of the Taliban, but many were and still are.

I applaud those who helped the allied forces to the detriment of themselves and their families, but I am also able to acknowledge the reality of war in Afghanistan.

One family descended from a woman who was a role model for me and many others. She’d been put on a kindertransport in Vienna. Her parents and entire extended family died in the camps. Her family included doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, artists and more.
Many who have the resources to seek a better life or simply to try and live are resilient with a lot to offer host countries
Well said Iam.

However, we are extremely fortunate, through an accident of birth, to be living in a democracy where, within our fairly liberal laws, we are allowed to live as ourselves, free to express our views safely and not involved in wars within our own country.

There but for the grace of god…

I agree; we are not somehow more worthy to be living where we are. It is pure luck!

But if it was next door or in your house would you be happy with that?

I would be very happy! There is an empty 3 bedroom house next to me, and the old couple who own it aren't able to live there any more or to let it; it is deteriorating. In my town there are asylum seekers being helped by local people, and I would be glad also to help support asylum seekers if they lived there.

That comment is indeed vile.
In my town and many others, people from Afghanistan top the list of nationalities seeking refuge.
no bleeding heart here I’m afraid

You sound proud of your attitude. What would you do if fate had you born in Afghanistan rather than this country? As a woman and mother of daughters, I’d do everything possible to get us to a country where we’d be safe and able to build good lives.

What a vile comment about Afgans.

MayBee70

ronib

MayBee70 You have heard of the Taliban?
What is your take on them?

I don’t understand your point. We left the Afghan people to the hands of the Taliban, that’s why so many are persecuted and are trying to escape (especially the ones that worked for us that we totally let down).

Believe we are still allowing Afghans to come here. They didn't all help you know, many turned cowards and blew up allied forces whilst they were at rest. No bleeding heart here I'm afraid.

M0nica have you seen Monaco? It’s my idea of hell. Yes a personal response.
Interesting to read that tax has been abolished in Monaco.
Alderney is definitely worth a visit. It’s not over populated and quite different in many ways.
It’s a long time since I dabbled in demography so I can’t quite remember the point I was trying to make…..

But ronib that is just a personal response. The people living in Monaco - and Singapore and Hong Kong are clearly quite happy living there -. Some people in some countries would consider someone living within a mile of them was overcrowding.

Jersey and Guernsey are 14th and 15th in the list of most densey populated countries. now my knowledge of the Channel Islands is limited to a day trip to St Helier, but I did not get the impression of an overpopulated island.

sazzl our area houses nationalities from all over the world and that’s definitely not a problem. It certainly keeps the local hospital working. However does Labour propose to allow all boat people to stay without a valid legal reason? Just by virtue of having travelled here via a dinghy in the Channel? Wouldn’t it make sense to have a better alternative system for gaining asylum before risking life on a dinghy?

If the UK had a surplus of accommodation and nobody was sleeping in vans tents etc I think people would be a lot more welcoming.
But people are selfish and very NIMBY. They don't want refugees or homeless hostals next to their homes.
So how many on here who have a spare bedroom or 2 would offer that to a refugee or someone sleeping in a tent? And how many defending the boats would be happy to have a refugee house that housed say 6 people next door and would welcome them?
People defending the boats and feeling sorry for the people online behind a keyboard, or standing in a peaceful protest is one thing.
But if it was next door or in your house would you be happy with that?
Latest is Labour plans to renovate buildings throughout the UK and scatter these boat people in various locations to help them integrate better.
So soon they could be your neighbours.

We still get boats coming across from Indonesia but we have a navy who assist in protecting our borders. People are no longer sent to off shore detention centres but the boats are turned back. If the people are ill they are cared for.

“ However, we are extremely fortunate,
through an accident of birth, to be
living in a democracy where, within
our fairly liberal laws, we are allowed to live as ourselves, free to express our views safely and not involved in wars within our own country.

There but for the grace of god…”

Hear, hear Cossy!

Monica thank you for your comment. It’s very muggy here tonight and I am not sure how to reply. Having been near Monaco a few years ago, I took fright and stayed on the bus to Menton. I don’t know how anyone copes living in Monaco. It doesn’t matter how rich the population is….. etc.

Casdon

Rosie51

Casdon

Yes, and I believe somebody also posted this on that thread:

‘An estimated 40% of Australia is considered uninhabitable. That's because it's the second driest continent. 80% of Australians live in an area the size of England.’
krcgtv.com › features › bey...

Australia is currently facing environmental challenges much greater than we are in the northern hemisphere.

Statistics such as this one quoted 80% of Australians live in an area the size of England are meaningless. The population of Australia is approximately 26 million so 80% is approximately 20.8 million people. England has a population of nearly 58 million, so no comparison.
This is not to say we don’t need immigration, just that we are far more crowded than Australia.

The biggest difference between the UK and Australia Rosie51 is the infrastructure needed to enable people to live there. You can’t make a direct comparison and say it’s however many times bigger than the UK so it should take however many more migrants than the UK. It’s also already a country populated almost entirely by people who have migrated there from all over the world over the last 250 years.

I don’t believe I expressed any view on how many migrants Australia should take? You made the comparison with the size of England, I merely pointed out you were not comparing equal populations. I wouldn’t dream of telling any country how many migrants they should take. We need migrants, controlled immigration, which for the most part we have. Our refuge seekers are a very small proportion of our numbers of immigrants.

BevSec

Cossy I am far from arrogant. I consider I do not have the right to live and be supported in any other country either.

But you are “allowed” to live in another country, you are “allowed” to claim asylum.

However, we are extremely fortunate, through an accident of birth, to be living in a democracy where, within our fairly liberal laws, we are allowed to live as ourselves, free to express our views safely and not involved in wars within our own country.

There but for the grace of god…

ronib

Iam64 have you ever heard of something called population density? Overpopulation?

Ronib population density has got nothing to do with over population. There are countries with low population densities because of the poor natural resources, weather conditions, or situation where a very low population density could also be over-population.

here is a link to a list of the most densely populated countries in the world. It is amazing just how many of the most densely populated countries in the world are remarkably wealthy and have no civil disturbances arising from 'over population'

The top 20 include Monaco, Singapore, Hong Kong, Bahrein, Bermuda, and Taiwan. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density

Chestnut your email said Fine, but don't you think 1.22 million new arrivals last year is enough? with the highlighting on the 1.22 million, you did not highlight the net figure. 'Why not'

You then say We had half a million leaving (who can blame them?) Suggesting that these were all British people who were normally resident in this country and could not cope anymore, when in fact most of those half million are immigrants, mostly students who are returning home.

So often with misinformation, it is not what people say ( or write) but how they say (or write).

I meant the family descended from this one woman, in her 90’s when this exhibition was put together. Her children, grandchildren all contributing positively in my city area

Have you heard of, or considered the reasons so many seek refuge?
I’m not suggesting Northern European countries can absorb everyone escaping risk of death. I’m suggesting the need for international co-operation in response to the horrors leading to the mass exodus
Our generation probably weren’t born when the holocaust was happening. But our parents told us and we saw film of parents putting their unaccompanied children on trains to escape to the uk.
The Daily Mail opposed the kinder transport
Manchester’s imperial war museum had an exhibition of photographs showing the families of some of those kindertransport, who would not have been here if we refused to help their ancestors. The Princess of Wales photographed some families. One family descended from a woman who was a role model for me and many others. She’d been put on a kindertransport in Vienna. Her parents and entire extended family died in the camps. Her family included doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, artists and more
Many who have the resources to seek a better life or simply to try and live are resilient with a lot to offer host countries

Iam64 have you ever heard of something called population density? Overpopulation?