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These lengthy prison sentences for rioters

(287 Posts)
winterwhite Sun 11-Aug-24 20:03:25

Apologies if there has been a thread on this already.
I fear that prison sentences of several years for young men with no previous record will do no good to them or their communities. The inadequacies of training or rehab in prisons has been gone over again and again. Meanwhile, many of the men will have families / young children who could fall into poverty, and how will the men themselves find work when they are released.
I would rather see sentences of 6-12 months while a task force is established to identify needed community work to which they could be bussed each weekend while working at home during the week to minimise family breakup.
Something like that strikes me as preferable to doing nothing in prison for years on end.

Ilovecheese Tue 20-Aug-24 10:20:17

Quokka

I never thought I’d say this but ….I’m thinking about some kind of military-discipline-type intervention to reclaim these youngsters while still at school?

Those failed by our education system?

Rather than the kind of unit that already exists for disruptive pupils something more positive, focused, etc.

At KS3 perhaps where instead of following the national curriculum and teacher led, something more in the line of a Cadet Corps? Run by professional soldiers? Police? Professional tradesmen?

I’m just thinking off the top of my head here but something needs to be done to help those at risk of ending up in prison surely?

So they would still be violent, but it would be more disciplined and skilled violence?

Casdon Tue 20-Aug-24 09:40:18

Just to clarify, Operation Early Dawn was triggered by the previous government in May. There was cross party consensus.

www.lawsociety.org.uk/en/topics/news-articles/operation-early-dawn-update-criminal-justice

Quokka Tue 20-Aug-24 09:30:26

I never thought I’d say this but ….I’m thinking about some kind of military-discipline-type intervention to reclaim these youngsters while still at school?

Those failed by our education system?

Rather than the kind of unit that already exists for disruptive pupils something more positive, focused, etc.

At KS3 perhaps where instead of following the national curriculum and teacher led, something more in the line of a Cadet Corps? Run by professional soldiers? Police? Professional tradesmen?

I’m just thinking off the top of my head here but something needs to be done to help those at risk of ending up in prison surely?

Wyllow3 Sun 18-Aug-24 10:07:12

As discussed on previous prison threads, when the state of overcrowding was revealed, Operation Dawn had stated clearly,

"““I understand some may feel worried but I can assure them that we are taking every possible precaution,” she said, citing exclusions in relation to those serving sentences for the most dangerous crimes, including sexual and serious violent offences.
This will also apply to offences linked to domestic violence, including stalking.”

"https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/18/prisoners-released-early-england-and-wales#:~:text=Prisoners%20who%20do%20not%20fall%20into%20exempt%20categories%2C%20such%20as,sentences%2C%20rather%20than%2050%25.

Iam64 Sun 18-Aug-24 10:06:47

Thanks for reminding us of reality doodle

Terribull- I read about the shocking are you refer to. When Blair introduced the now defunct indeterminate sentences, it was aimed at that kind of offender. Dangerous psychopaths who society needs protecting from. Presumably he doesn’t fit the hospital criteria but he shouldn’t have been released imo.

Doodledog Sun 18-Aug-24 09:49:09

No rapists, psychopaths or violent offenders are being released in order to house rioters. This has been said over and over on these threads. Only those serving short sentences for non-violent offences will be eligible for early release.

TerriBull Sun 18-Aug-24 09:44:20

It was alarming to read that a very dangerous rapist, who left one of his victims minutes from death, having gone on a rampage of breaking and entering, stabbing victims and committing sexual assaults is to be let out after 12 years, he was only 22 when he committed these atrocities, so there's plenty of life in this person who is still a youngish man. There was another such criminal a while back who committed similar crimes on his release. I'd hate to think that a potentially threatening, murderous even, criminal and others like him are being unleashed to make way for the new wave of those about to be incarcerated. I've no doubt that some of the rioters need a short sharp shock as a deterrent but not at the expense of releasing psychopaths back into society.

Oreo Sun 18-Aug-24 09:26:00

Apparently we jail a higher percentage of people than anywhere else in Europe, or so I’ve read.
Sometimes prison is the only answer but given that there’s no meaningful rehabilitation after or during the stay there are better ways to deal with some in my view.

Oreo Sun 18-Aug-24 09:22:10

Doodledog

Good point. I'm guessing that the cost of keeping a criminal in jail is higher than keeping a refugee in a basic 'hotel'.

It must be much higher given all the staff and overheads.

Oreo Sun 18-Aug-24 09:19:49

MayBee70

Freya5

Casdon

I have reported your post Freya5. Personal insults are completely unnecessary, not to mention mean.

Yet someone gets away with calling me "evil". Glad you're happy with the hypocrisy .

Oh c’mon Freya. The comments from you and Oreo had me in tears years yesterday so that’s quite hypocritical.

Excuse me!!
Is there one GN law for you and a different one for everybody else?
Can you say anything you like on here? Keep personal insults off the thread is my advice.

Chocolatelovinggran Sun 18-Aug-24 08:30:06

Well, I followed up Judge Linford' s excellent comments, Maybee, and Mr Google and a little calculation gave me an approximate figure for this gentleman's thirty years incarceration and arrived at £1.5 million...
I am happy to have this corrected, but even if it's " just" a million pounds, it's a staggering sum.
His outrage at the cost of asylum seekers seems somewhat unjustified (!) unless in his area the LA is putting asylum seekers up in The Dorchester.

veejay Sat 17-Aug-24 23:59:24

I agree that most would not have expected prison sentences, so might make others think twice
I hope it does serve as a deterrent
Someone on X is asking for contributions for one of his friends who has been locked ups family .saying he has mortgage to pay etc,
I do feel for his family but let him sort it out in any way he can
No sympathy from me .more with the ones who have had businesses and property set on fire
Most said no.he should have thought about his family before throwing things at a policeman
Others did send money

MayBee70 Sat 17-Aug-24 23:22:47

Well, it’s a lot of chocolate!

Chocolatelovinggran Sat 17-Aug-24 22:32:24

Good grief Maybee - thirty years of prison time?! I can't begin to calculate the cost.

Wyllow3 Sat 17-Aug-24 20:56:11

Maybee thank you for that brilliant report of what the judge said.

DillytheGardener Sat 17-Aug-24 20:48:11

You must be joking, the just stop oil received 4 year sentences for a Zoom meeting! These rioters that caused enormous amount of physical damage to both person and properties are measly in comparison.

MayBee70 Sat 17-Aug-24 19:57:01

Freya5

Casdon

I have reported your post Freya5. Personal insults are completely unnecessary, not to mention mean.

Yet someone gets away with calling me "evil". Glad you're happy with the hypocrisy .

Oh c’mon Freya. The comments from you and Oreo had me in tears years yesterday so that’s quite hypocritical.

Margs Sat 17-Aug-24 19:46:27

They would have avoided the courts and custodial penalties by behaving themselves and not using the murders of those three children as a blanket excuse to go on looting sprees, throwing in gratuitous violence along the way.

The several mugshots of those convicted hardly lead me to believe they were Brains Trust candidates. A number were reported to be breaking into tears as they were sentenced.

It'll take more than tears to keep them safe in prison......

Freya5 Sat 17-Aug-24 19:03:18

Casdon

I have reported your post Freya5. Personal insults are completely unnecessary, not to mention mean.

Yet someone gets away with calling me "evil". Glad you're happy with the hypocrisy .

MissAdventure Sat 17-Aug-24 18:09:48

A round of applause for that judge!!

MayBee70 Sat 17-Aug-24 18:01:11

Two racist rioters brilliantly taken apart by their sentencing judge in Plymouth.
John Cann (left) and Ryan Bailey (right) both pleaded guilty to violent disorder and appeared at Plymouth Crown Court for sentencing.
Judge Robert Linford rounded on Cann telling him that according to his police interview he discussed with them "about the better use of taxpayers' money and why people were having to pay to keep these people in this country after committing such heinous crimes."
Judge Linford then launched a stinging rebuke to Cann saying: "So let's look at how the taxpayer have been funding your activities over the last 38 years - let's see what you've cost the country: you've got 10 aliases, four fictitious birth dates, you're 51 years of age, you've been convicted of 170 offences, you been convicted of theft, arson, taking cars, handling stolen goods, obtaining by deception, burglary, dangerous driving and possessing bladed articles.
"In all over the years that you've been visiting the criminal justice system you've received sentences totalling 357 months in prison, many of them concurrent.
"In other words, nearly 30 years. That Mr Cann is what you've been costing this country and you sit there in that interview and saw fit to be critical of others. You have no right whatever to say who should or should not be in this country."
To Bailey, Judge Linford said he had 29 convictions for 39 offences, including theft, criminal damage, possession of drugs, supply of class A drugs, threatening behaviour, breach of a Domestic Violence Protection Order and robbery "and you were chanting with the rest of that rabble about immigration".
"You two were in no position to judge anybody".
Judge Linford accepted the pair had pleaded guilty at the earlier opportunity and handed Cann a three year jail sentence and Bailey a 30 month jail sentence. He said they would serve half before being released on licence.

Apologies if this has already been posted...

Doodledog Fri 16-Aug-24 13:03:01

Good point. I'm guessing that the cost of keeping a criminal in jail is higher than keeping a refugee in a basic 'hotel'.

MayBee70 Fri 16-Aug-24 12:51:08

harrigran

The woman from my town, who received a 2.5 year sentence, was not a first time offender. She was out on licence after having attacked a lady " for being gay " 😡

Supposedly a lot of the people charged have had previous convictions. And yet they say they were rioting because immigrants were a financial drain on the country.

Chocolatelovinggran Fri 16-Aug-24 12:23:54

Oh harrigran, she sounds just charming.
Your town is safer without her on the streets, I think.

harrigran Fri 16-Aug-24 09:20:08

The woman from my town, who received a 2.5 year sentence, was not a first time offender. She was out on licence after having attacked a lady " for being gay " 😡