Older drivers. Should we take a test at 75?

I've enough stress in my life already but I do like MOnica's suggestion of regular compulsory eye and cognitive testing. Makes a lot of sense in my book.

Cambsnan
I have heard people say things like that too.
It's ridiculous.

I just turned 70 and had to take an eye test as I declared an eye problem. I passed easily but the number of people who suggested I should have said nothing about it has shocked me. Being carless would be difficult but I don’t want to drive if I become unsafe and would rather know!

My father had three minor accidents in a year. He lived alone but used to drive to me for a main meal each day. He was very deaf and refused to wear a hearing aid, tbh I hadn't noticed any cognitive decline but became increasingly concerned about his driving so one day I found a reason to be a passenger. I was terrified! His awareness of other drivers was impaired and his reactions were very slow although he thought he was quite safe and blamed the other cars on the road. I tried to persuade him to stop driving but it just caused terrible arguments. He had vascular dementia.

I have just come back from hospital (just a blood test) and I was crossing on the zebra to the hospital car park - when an "elderly" gent, (driving with his mouth open!) didn't see me and just drove through. I could see he wasn't aware of me at all - and quickly stepped back.
If I had been less alert (or less mobile) I would have been run over.

We see it every day.
We need to be aware of it in ourselves.

At least the new (young) drivers get better with age and experience!!

I’ve seen shocking parking from much younger people. Some won’t even attempt parallel parking, and many do not reverse in to parking spaces when it would clearly be more sensible to do so, but I appreciate your point MOnica.

Yes, certainly irritating and bad parking etc but not dangerous driving; he probably should not be driving, but we shouldn’t forget that 50% of all accidents are caused by males under 30.
Four times as much as any other age group. Maybe something should be done about that.

This afternoon I saw aa classic example of why older drivers should do cognitive tests.

I was in an underground car park getting to leave when I heard a car constantly revving a bit and then moving down th aisle very slowly and then when the momentum of each litttle rev died away and it almost came toa stop, doing another little rev, so it was travelling in slow spirts. It was a huge black executive type. saloon car, with all its lights on full despite the car park being well lit with daylight coming in around the edges.

It drifted past me, and then found a space in the row backing onto mine, to his credit the driver backed in, but only 75% of the way and stopped the car with quite a bit of it sticking out into the aisle and about six foot of empty space at the back.. He then sat there for several minutes with all the lights full on, including break lights.

I was wanting to pull out through the empty space next to his, so waited in case he moved again then as I slowly pulled out, he finally turned his light off and got out of the car.. He was a very old looking and frail man and I did wonder how safe he was on the roads, especially in a busy University town with two big universities and students and bikes everywhere and a busy hospital with emergency ambulances passing buy every few minutes.

Before my aunt's dementia was diagnosed I can remember a neighbour describing her driving to and from the local town 5 miles away at 20 miles an hour in second gear.

growstuff There is a standard cognitive test in common use. I took it twice last year. It is comprehensive and if I am modestly proud at having completed it without error twice, I have reason to be. David49 Cognitive tests are not open to interpretation, at least, not the ones I did that tested every aspect of cognition with clearly measurable and markable tests
Cognition tests are used sometimes for job suitability. These are very different tests and may be more subjective in interpretation.

It takes about 20 minutes and could be adminstered by a nurse in the surgery. The appeal would be simple. do the test again somewhere different. If you fail twice on a standard test then your licence would be withdrawn. No different to having your license withdrawn after a diagnosis of dementia. It would only be required when someone over 70 was renewing their driving licence. Recent research medicine. [[medecine.wustl.edu/news/even-very-subtle-cognitive-decline-is-linked-to-stopping-driving/ ]]has shown the importance of cognitive failure.

The eye test would be even simpler. You would have to produce evidence of a recent eye test to renew your licence. No eye test certificate, no licence renewal

A firiend died recently at the age of 76. He was diagnosed with dementia in 2022, but had been going down hill before then - and driving and as the article I quoted further up this thread, even slight cognitive impairmant can cause real problems with driving.

I realise that you can't protect against every eventuality.

I think requiring every 70 year old to have a cognitive test would be unrealistic. I can't even begin to think how many testers would be required, what kind of test would be used and how any appeals would work.

However, requiring a certificate from an optician would be reasonable, providing that people do have regular eye tests. The reason for my post was because I was wondering if people do indeed have regular eye tests. My optician told me two years ago that I was on the threshold for needing driving glasses, so I got some - and wear them.

growstuff

How often do people over 70 have their eyes tested? I have an annual standard test and a diabetic eye test (they test different things), but I don't know how usual that is. I suppose I assumed that people did have regular eye tests and acted on any recommendations. If that's the case, it wouldn't be that difficult for people to provide evidence of a recent eye test - not that it would guarantee that people would wear their glasses if required.

You cannot protect against every eventuality. You can make sure eye tests are taken and results reported. Cognitive tests are applied. You cannot make people wear glasses.

There are laws about wearing seat belts and drink/driving, but some people will still drink drive and/or not wear seat belts. The best you can do is have the laws or regulations and prosecute those who break them. Others tempted to avoid the rules may obey because of the fear of prosecution.

No system is perfect.

flappergirl

I think 80 might be the better benchmark for a retest. After all, lots of people are still working well in to their 70's these days. I myself am 67 and still work full time in a highly responsible job. People are living much longer, are generally far healthier and have quite different lifestyles and expectations to previous generations. When I look back on 70 year olds in my childhood, they were archetypically "old" and a life expectancy of 75 was considered not a bad innings especially for a man. 70 year olds these days are quite different. 70 is the new 50 (or certainly 60) if you like.

The vast majority of these tragic cases seem to involve drivers in their 90's and that really is a different ball game entirely. It also has to be borne in mind that most deaths by road are caused by drunk or drugged drivers who are far from elderly.

I agree. I’m in my 70s and am still competently driving daily and I don’t understand those frightened of motorway driving because imo it’s far more straightforward than driving on other roads, urban and country, where indeed most accidents occur.

I think the main problem with older drivers is that their driving is often local on familiar routes with low annual mileage and they lose confidence and competence for longer unfamiliar journeys. There is also the fact that many older drivers may be taking medication which can affect driving, but I guess there are many more younger people driving under the influence of drugs. I do think evidence of a recent eye test should be compulsory when renewing licence.

Perhaps rather than a formal test at say 80 it should be compulsory to attend a RoadSmart assessment with a legally valid report about the drivers ability and safety to continue to hold a licence. The official driving test is far too over burdened to test everyone over the age of 70.

That’s true Maybee. We all have to do it, avoiding even more accidents.

silverlining48

Men under the age of 30 are responsible for 50% of all accidents. Four times as much as any other age group.

And that figure would be even higher if older, more sensible drivers didn’t watch out for them, take evasive action and eg make it easier for them to overtake when it’s obvious they’ve miscalculated ( something that happens all the time on the A1). My partners house is on a coast road 30mph limit but young drivers whizz past at night doing up to 60.

Given they can only start driving at 17 that’s a lot of accidents in only 13 years of driving…

Men under the age of 30 are responsible for 50% of all accidents. Four times as much as any other age group.

Cognitive tests are too open to interpretation and I really don’t see that being introduced anytime soon, eye tests are straightforward everyone over a certain age has them the result can be part of the new application rather than just a self declaration.

How often do people over 70 have their eyes tested? I have an annual standard test and a diabetic eye test (they test different things), but I don't know how usual that is. I suppose I assumed that people did have regular eye tests and acted on any recommendations. If that's the case, it wouldn't be that difficult for people to provide evidence of a recent eye test - not that it would guarantee that people would wear their glasses if required.

The key problems for older drivers are eyesight and cognitive failure and these 2 account for almost all accidents they are involved in where they are at fault.

Recent research medicine.wustl.edu/news/even-very-subtle-cognitive-decline-is-linked-to-stopping-driving/ has shown the importance of cognitive failure.

Which goes back to my belief that the any problems with driving when over 70 can be dealt with by having to provide evidence of a recent eye test when renewing a license and opticians being required to inform the DVLA when someone (any age) who has a driving licence fails the eye test with glasses on.

I have done two full cognitive tests in the past year. Neither showed I had any signs of cognitive failure. They were both adminstered by a nurse and took between 20-30 minutes to do

silverlining48

It’s my understanding that it’s the young who cause many more accidents than older people who are generally more careful.

Yes that’s true, with older drivers it’s usually eyesight that causes accidents, occasionally a major event ( heart attack etc)

It’s my understanding that it’s the young who cause many more accidents than older people who are generally more careful.

Aside from it being foolish to base a re-testing policy on occasional tragic events it's worth noting that the backlog for initial driving tests is now growing. Would any government want to add to that by re-testing all 75 year olds. I doubt it.

Even the most basic A Class Merc comes with a dual clutch automatic, all you do is select forward or reverse.

David49 I don't think you pay extra for a manual, generally automatics are more expensive even for Mercs, they can also be more expensive to maintain.

Modern automatics are not slow and many cars if you want a manual you pay extra, Mercedes has been like that for many years. Electric is even better, no gears at all, press a button and go, lots of secondhand EVs cheap currently, buy one with a manufacturers warranty..