Keyboard warriors - will the jail sentences deter others?

eazybee

Julie Sweeney lives next door to an Asian woman.
I daresay she has visited Manchester occasionally.

If her next-door neighbour is Muslim, she should know better. I'm glad she's not my neighbour.

Dinahmo

I agree that the judge made that point but I do not believe that a prison sentence is a deterrent. There were thousands of people involved in the riots last week but the last figure for arrests that I saw was 700.

It was proved to be a deterrent in the 2011 riots, that's why quick sharp sentencing is being used this time. In order to progress the prosecution the police are using video/photographic footage so the accused know if they don't plead guilty and go to full trial they will get far longer sentences. All this evidence gathering/identification/arrests take time. It's incredible so many have been identified, located, arrested and prosecuted so quickly.

I’ve read some reports of the violent rioters sentenced this week. Many of them claim to have been influenced by on line information, that transpired to be false.
This made me reflect on this thread, discussing the pros and cons of sentencing ‘key board warriors’. Despite my belief we send too many non violent offenders to custody, it confirmed my support for prison as the only suitable sentence eg for typing that the mosques should be burned with people in them.

growstuff

eazybee

Julie Sweeney lives next door to an Asian woman.
I daresay she has visited Manchester occasionally.

If her next-door neighbour is Muslim, she should know better. I'm glad she's not my neighbour.

The Asian neighbour could be a member of any religion or none.
It was a really horrible thing to say on SM (the mosque) and there have to be repercussions but am certainly not sure that prison is the just outcome.

growstuff

eazybee

Julie Sweeney lives next door to an Asian woman.
I daresay she has visited Manchester occasionally.

Why Manchester?

Because it’s a city that’s near where we lives with a large multicultural population I should think.

Not we lives😄that should be shelives.

Doh! 😂 she lives , got it right at last.

Since the riots are alleged to have started because false information was posted on the Internet, keyboard warriers do need to be held to account for their actions. I don't see them as non violent offenders.

I think it’s a question of who is putting out false info to start with? Was it done with malicious intent or not?

Oreo

growstuff

eazybee

Julie Sweeney lives next door to an Asian woman.
I daresay she has visited Manchester occasionally.

Why Manchester?

Because it’s a city that’s near where we lives with a large multicultural population I should think.

But even if she does visit Manchester occasionally, how many Muslims would she sit down with and really find out about their lives? She was inciting people do bomb them.

In any case, the village where she lives isn't really in Manchester's hinterland.

I think the "information" that started it ie the murderer was an asian migrant was malicious in intent, but despite corrections stuck in the minds of many, and then waves of half or misinformation came out....

In the news report on Julie Sweeney given above it said she had posted her "bombs in the Mosque" post

as a result of seeing on the Facebook page a picture of the communites in Southport working together to sweep and repair the damage, strange timing.

Parsley3

Since the riots are alleged to have started because false information was posted on the Internet, keyboard warriers do need to be held to account for their actions. I don't see them as non violent offenders.

Absolutely. People bang on about free speech in cases like this, but what they need to realise that, along with free speech comes responsibility - and consequences. It's the same with people who jeopardise court cases by making ridiculous comments online.

I don't think you can educate a mindset out of some people.

You can, however, make it clear that certain behaviours won't be tolerated.
By punishing them. By taking up their time. By restricting them.

I don't see why people are bulking at the idea.

Baulking.

I'm not convinced that a jail sentence will make Julie Sweeney realise the consequence of her "free speech". It would appear that she has a deeply held contempt for Muslims. She incited bombing, presumably because she doesn't see the lives of Muslim people as having any value. She wasn't just passing on (false) information she had read. It's more likely that she'll see herself as a victim, having being denied her "right to free speech". That's why I'd like her face up to what the consequences of her actions could have been - looking at people with burns injuries, speaking to people from an ordinary Muslim family and telling them to their faces that she wanted to bomb them. If the experience gives her nightmares, so what?

MissAdventure

I don't think you can educate a mindset out of some people.

You can, however, make it clear that certain behaviours won't be tolerated.
By punishing them. By taking up their time. By restricting them.

I don't see why people are bulking at the idea.

I'm not baulking at it, but I'm just not convinced that imprisonment would have any effect. I agree that society must demonstrate that certain behaviours won't be tolerated, but I'm concerned that the punishment will turn her into a victim/martyr in some people's minds. The behaviours will continue on less easily monitored social media platforms.

Yes, I don't know what the answer is - the best way forward.
Probably not prison, I'm sure.

I'm glad at least something has been done, for now.

Doodledog

Casdon

I wonder if enforced attendance over a number of weeks to be ‘lectured at’ about the impact of what they have posted would work, or counselling, or tailored community service specific to the crime?

Re-education? Not really a British thing, is it?

Community service maybe, if it could be done on a reparations basis, with the co-operation of the victims, which is a big ask. Rebuilding hotels, libraries and mosques, with conversations with Imams and refugees might work in some cases. It would have to be closely supervised though.

Whatever it is has to be a deterrent as well as realistic and affordable.

If this were possible I think it would be an excellent thing to do. The deterrent element would be the 'community service' - rebuilding, repairing; and the contact and connection with the people they think they hate, might change their minds.

Hopefully the short sharp shock of imprisonment will have
the result that people will be far more cautious in what they post, and Doodledog's restorative justice proposal being used for future offenders.

Try the shoe on the other foot.
If the woman was a Muslim calling for people in a church to be blown up or burned what would your response be?
And do we suppose that freedom of speech should extend to terrorist groups grooming recruits on the internet?
If someone can point out the difference out here I look forward to it.
Both groups are inciting hate crimes and should face imprisonment. No?

On I player newsfeed another example of prosecution involving social media:

Encouraging murder during unrest

In Liverpool, a 39-year-old man, whose case we mentioned earlier, has pleaded not guilty to intentionally encouraging murder and violent disorder between 28 July and 8 August....

.....Chris Taylor, prosecuting, confirmed to Judge Neil Flewitt at Liverpool Crown Court that "in simple terms" the suggestion was McIntyre was the administrator on an online group.

The judge has set 3 February as the provisional trial date and McIntyre will be remanded into custody until then.

No details of the group or its contents released as its sub judice, but the interest here is that he was admin to the group, as in "intentionally encouraging murder and violent disorder"

MissAdventure

I don't think you can educate a mindset out of some people.

You can, however, make it clear that certain behaviours won't be tolerated.
By punishing them. By taking up their time. By restricting them.

I don't see why people are bulking at the idea.

I agree, there is no educating some people, I think the sentences are deserved and in my opinion will serve as a deterrent to others with the same mindset.

Nano14

MissAdventure

I don't think you can educate a mindset out of some people.

You can, however, make it clear that certain behaviours won't be tolerated.
By punishing them. By taking up their time. By restricting them.

I don't see why people are bulking at the idea.

I agree, there is no educating some people, I think the sentences are deserved and in my opinion will serve as a deterrent to others with the same mindset.

Well said both

Oreo

I think it’s a question of who is putting out false info to start with? Was it done with malicious intent or not?

Can you explain how someone putting out false info can possibly be doing so without malicious intent?

MissAdventure

I don't think you can educate a mindset out of some people.

You can, however, make it clear that certain behaviours won't be tolerated.
By punishing them. By taking up their time. By restricting them.

I don't see why people are bulking at the idea.

I agree

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