Angela Rayner dancing whilst on holiday in Ibiza

Monica or is another way of thinking about this to look at why 50 per cent at the bottom pay only 10 percent? Do we artificially deflate pay for some jobs? Carers seem to be a good example of low pay for high value work.

The problem with all the desire to make the wealthy pay is, that actually they are a relatively small proportion of the population and the amount of money you would get from any increase in taxation is more than outweighed by the take from adding 1p to the tax of the majority.

Currently the top 10% of tax payers contribute 30% of the governments personal taxation take and the bottom 50% less than 10% researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8513/CBP-8513.pdf Information from a very interesting and authoritative source.

The probles is, raise taxes too high and many wealthy people relocate their lives elsewhere. Relocating does not necessarily mean moving right out of the country. the most wealthy usually live across several locations at home and overseas and a slight adjustment in the number of days they stay in London, rather than New York or Dubai or Singapore and an official change of country of domicile will sort that out. I am not talking about non-doms, that is a problem that no longer exists.

Lower down the scale, some people are already said to be rejecting promotions because it puts them up a tax grade and they are better off fianncially earning less - then of course they get poached by companies based overseas and move to the USA or elsewhere in Europe.

Ever wondered why so many ex-pats are based in the Gulf States? taxsummaries.pwc.com/united-arab-emirates/individual/other-taxes thats why.

I am not against progressive taxation, but so many people just parrot 'tax the rich' without any idea what they mean by that. Who is rich, how much tax, what would the take be, what would be the downsides.

What they really mean is tax somebody else, don't tax me.

ronib

I don’t think that is accurate - more likely the rich will get richer and the poor will slide down even more. We already have the closing down of social mobility and it may well escalate.
Not my wish for youth.

Well, yes, the wealth-gap yawns ever wider.

What I don't understand is why these 'painful' decisions made by chancellors always have to inflict more pain on those already in pain... if you see what I mean. Just how forcefully can you squeeze the pips out of a lemon, when there are in fact none left?

I can understand that those who've worked very very hard and have established a business and maybe economically future-proofed themselves and their families not wanting to pay yet more tax - but what about inherited wealth - the huge wealth of the extremely wealthy, or the enormous profits made by companies and corporations often at the expense of their employees - these businesses and corporations, etc, that employ as few workers as possible paying them as little as they can get away with?

Why do those with the least - and I include middle-income families in this category; those that have saved for their old-age... as we've been encouraged to do so as not to be a future burden on the State - why are they and we being asked to give up more to plug these black holes, black holes which are basically economic forecasts and can vary according to who is making the calculations and which methodology is being used?

Can any of the posters on here who are still working for an employer choose to receive their remuneration so as to reduce their personal tax bill? Are they in a position to ask for part to be paid in dividends up to the point they are not taxed? Or are the majority stuck on PAYE - no choice in the matter?

The ordinary working man or woman has the odds stacked against them right from the start. Wages have stagnated over the last 15 years, rents have increased enormously - the average worker can no longer afford to rent in London, nor buy; energy prices have gone through the roof and government has done little to mitigate that 51% increase back in whenever it was a couple of years ago (the French government reduced it to a 4% increase - of course consumers will still foot the total bill, but in increments that are more manageable for the ordinary citizen).

Hmm, this is a bit of a rant isn't it. I'm just putting my thoughts down on here.

Roll on the budget, eh? Let's hear about those continuing 'difficult' decisions! The worst thing that Starmer and his party are doing is leaving ordinary people feeling hope-less. When hope is gone - what's left to make each day worth getting up for?

J52 light hearted isn’t working for me at this moment.

I can sense someone is champing at the bit to tell us exactly what our deputy PM was doing...

MPs!

Ah the oblique message about yesterday? I was just lightheartedly referring to MOs private holidays.
Of course I expect them to work on a Monday, how odd not to.

ronib

You obviously don’t believe that ministers of the crown should be working on a Monday J52? Well I do.

Please explain?

You obviously don’t believe that ministers of the crown should be working on a Monday J52? Well I do.

Allira

ronib

Any idea what our Angela did today?

Goodness, this is becoming rather like those books I remember reading years ago

What Angela Did
What Angela Did in Ibiza at School
What Angela Did Next

😂😂😂 I’m wondering what other politicians did on their private holidays.
I think we should be told, as a matter of public interest ( nosiness ) and national security!
😲

I don’t think that is accurate - more likely the rich will get richer and the poor will slide down even more. We already have the closing down of social mobility and it may well escalate.
Not my wish for youth.

In other words, the rich will stay rich and the poor will stay poor, basically.

I thought I'd voted for a Labour Governent
Silly me.

ronib

Slight communication error - I meant AR’s work schedule - TUC conference with Starmer …. Okay. That’s interesting ….

Well, I think our Angela's scandalous dancing-in-Ibiza is now well and truly 'dead' news - as the focus over the next couple of days will be on the vote on dropping the WFA - is it today?

This is what I believe: Starmer would never have won the election if he'd stuck to what are regarded as the true principles of the Labour party - the founding principles. Those days are well and truly gone. He had to get business, the private sector, onboard - effectively run with both hare and hounds.

He can afford to lose the support of low-income pensioners, but has to tread carefully with the wealthy, the business and finance sectors. A windfall-tax on energy company profits would have garnered far more than the measly £1.6 billion (or whatever it is) to fill that alleged black-hole. But it would have alienated those that he really needs to keep onboard.

It's quite clear from the warnings of more 'difficult decisions' that he will be instituting Austerity-Mark-2. And those who will bear the brunt of those difficult-decisions will be the already impoverished, the just-about-managing, and anyone who has buffered themselves with small savings.

In other words, the rich will stay rich and the poor will stay poor, basically.

We need Henry Ford's revolution.

Slight communication error - I meant AR’s work schedule - TUC conference with Starmer …. Okay. That’s interesting ….

Did she....
Wear tassels on her nipples, jump out of a birthday cake and shimmy her bosoms at some man whilst gargling "happy birthday" with a mouthful of vodka?

ronib

Any idea what our Angela did today?

Goodness, this is becoming rather like those books I remember reading years ago

What Angela Did
What Angela Did in Ibiza at School
What Angela Did Next

MaizieD

^Can someone explain why Lucy Powell was most insistent that £1.4 billion from WFA had to be recovered to help with the £22 billion deficit which the government erroneously called a black hole^

I think that she actually said something to the effect that not 'saving' this £1.4billion would scare the finance markets. Gleefully seized on by anyone with the slightest knowledge of the finance markets as being total b*llcks. This government seems determined to trip itself up.

... bit like trying to economise your household budget by nicking the kids' pocket-money to impress your creditors...

MaizieD

... lots to read - in your links, etc. Thanks!

ronib

Any idea what our Angela did today?

Isn't she in Brighton with Starmer for the TUC conference?

MaizieD couldn’t agree more.
What about the extra cost involved in making everyone who is eligible now claim pension credit? Simply because they now have to as prices are escalating…

Can someone explain why Lucy Powell was most insistent that £1.4 billion from WFA had to be recovered to help with the £22 billion deficit which the government erroneously called a black hole

I think that she actually said something to the effect that not 'saving' this £1.4billion would scare the finance markets. Gleefully seized on by anyone with the slightest knowledge of the finance markets as being total b*llcks. This government seems determined to trip itself up.

Can someone explain why Lucy Powell was most insistent that £1.4 billion from WFA had to be recovered to help with the £22 billion deficit which the government erroneously called a black hole?
Now my point is that now if everyone claims pension credit there will be about £3 billion plus extra to cover. So the puzzle is where is the extra money coming from? Given that it was essential to get back £1.4 billion?

MaizieD I think RR has boxed herself in and is trying to get out. When I look at the scaremongering going on in the media tbh I'm not surprised. We needed a change of government but I wish the LP had had the confidence to be more open about their plans, I think they would still have been elected with a sizeable majority. TBH I also wish they'd take a bit from Harris and Walz and spread less doom and a bit more positivity. However, despite the fact that DWP is already struggling to process claims for PC (no surprise there!), if this leads to more people getting the benefits they need and should be claiming, than that's a win.

Nandalot

*GrannyGravy13*, where did you find UK placed 8th in manufacturing.? All the articles I found placed us about 12th like this one.
drivesncontrols.com/uk-drops-from-8th-to-12th-in-global-manufacturing-league/
As an aside, DGS as part of Geography homework had to plot where 10 things in his home were manufactured. Only one from UK, but then three of the items were tech. so obviously far east!

I just asked Google, there are plenty of articles and all placed U.K. 8th.

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

Although, it has to be said, that there are other countries that actually do invest more in their people, economically. And still manage to merge this with, and sustain, free-market Capitalism.

Basically a 'mixed economy'. Which we had until Thatcher and her heirs got going...

After all, we produce absolutely nothing so are dependent on the private sector to supply our state owned sector with goods and services. And consumer spending by state employees sustains private enterprises.

MaizieD a quick Google shows that the U.K. is eight in the global manufacturing league

Which makes your statement we produce absolutely nothing
incorrect.

You have misunderstood me, GG13. The state produces nothing. It is dependent on the private sector to supply it.

OK 👍