The bravery of Gisele Pelicot.

I wonder where he found a supply of such powerful sedatives? Online I suppose. Prolonged use of these must have a longer term effect on her. No wonder she has memory problems. Poor poor brave woman.

With the talk of marital rape, it is sobering to think that in the UK it o ly became illegal.ikn1991, in France in 1994. In many parts of the world sadly, it is still legal. As the lady had been married for so long, like myself, she had started off her married life where it was legal, and she probably accepted that if she woke up and felt that he had had sex with her that things hadn't changed much
There are some incredibly revolting men, I've not been able to listen/read all all the details, but so many men who were close enough to want to do this, how many men in our area are there who would do this sort.of thing.
Gaslighting - he knew full well why her memory was as it was, why she was suffering from all the after effects, but told her and everyone that it was unexplained ill health
The origins of the word go back to a film called gaslight, where a man manages to persuade his wife and everyone that his wife is going insane because he manipulated her surroundings, worth looking up the plot because that shows some great examples
As for the up skirting- I remember that legislation to make it illegal was blocked by 2 members of Parliament, the king of filibustering Philip Davies and Christopher Chope. Thank heavens the law was eventually passed, and Davies is no longer an MP, but Chope is, another bill he tried to block gave extra protection to girls and women against FGM
Despite all of this he is still an MP, plenty of people think that his parliamentary record is ok

JaneJudge

^It's hard when your abuser is someone you love. I left someone who I loved, not because I stopped loving them, but because I couldn't go through the abuse anymore. I can identify with parts of this story as the abuser told lies about me, rather than admit their part. I never told anyone because I didn't think I'd be believed- and that was me fully knowing , understanding and aware of the abuse. I was conditioned not to be believed and others were conditioned not to believe me.^

This is a common theme with emotional abuse. I'm sorry Oops I'm glad platforms like this give a voice to people to explain how 'normal' this seemingly 'abnormal' behaviours from victims is. It is certainly understood better than several decades ago.

Yes it is more understood now, with more people using the internet and getting braver about speaking out. Being able to do it anon is helpful to me. I don't think I could be as brave as Gisele, but I only had one abuser. It's probably the only way she can get justice and protect other women.

DEFINTELY never underestimate the lengths these men will go to. They can make mutual friends turn against you when you need support. They can turn family against you. They are plausible, charming with a good, often charismatic public persona. But nothing, nothing NOTHING alters the truth

On a similar note, my friend's daughter has just seen her abuser plead guilty in court to abusing her over a period of several years, starting when she was just 13. He groomed her and made her believe she was in a genuine relationship with him. I know it's slightly different, because she was just a child, but the practices these abusers use is all part of a similar pattern. I know it took a great deal of courage and bravery on her part to finally report him for what he did to her, as it had a huge effect on her mental health for years (self-harm etc), and I hope she will soon see justice done, as will Mme Pelicot. Never underestimate the lengths abusers like this will go to.

It's hard when your abuser is someone you love. I left someone who I loved, not because I stopped loving them, but because I couldn't go through the abuse anymore. I can identify with parts of this story as the abuser told lies about me, rather than admit their part. I never told anyone because I didn't think I'd be believed- and that was me fully knowing , understanding and aware of the abuse. I was conditioned not to be believed and others were conditioned not to believe me.

This is a common theme with emotional abuse. I'm sorry Oops I'm glad platforms like this give a voice to people to explain how 'normal' this seemingly 'abnormal' behaviours from victims is. It is certainly understood better than several decades ago.

Jane, we thought the same and probably wrote at the same time . Good to be on the same wavelength with you.

I didn't know she was beginning to have sympathy for her husband in jail. This is probably because unlike him , she is an empathetic human who cares about their spouse. It's a shame he didn't show her the same consideration. I hope she gets a lot of professional support as well.

It's hard when your abuser is someone you love. I left someone who I loved, not because I stopped loving them, but because I couldn't go through the abuse anymore. I can identify with parts of this story as the abuser told lies about me, rather than admit their part. I never told anyone because I didn't think I'd be believed- and that was me fully knowing , understanding and aware of the abuse. I was conditioned not to be believed and others were conditioned not to believe me. It's a long time ago now, but I still struggle at times and know that Giseles story will retraumatise some SA PTSD sufferers, but ultimately society needs to change and safeguard the weak.

I really admire Gisele and wish her the best recovery.

This crime is beyond belief. The bravery she has showed is incredible.

Poor woman I hope she will get a lot of professional support

You’re aware that as she has no memory of it she’s beginning to have sympathy for her husband in jail?

Thank you 0opsidia and JaneJudge. We live and learn!

I had the same thought regarding safeguarding. It is accepted that men try to gain access to vulnerable females, including those without mental capacity, in order to abuse and rape them. It's why background checks/dbs are in place, female only care rules etc etc

sorry I missed your post oops

I googled, this is the AI overview. It's emotional abuse

AI Overview
Learn more
…
What Is Gaslighting? Examples, Types, Causes, & How To Respond
Gaslighting is a type of psychological manipulation that involves making someone question their own reality, memories, or thoughts. It's a form of emotional abuse that's often used to gain power and control over someone.

Here are some ways gaslighting can manifest:

Pretending to forget
The abuser may pretend to have forgotten something that happened, or claim they didn't do it.

Diverting
The abuser may change the subject of a conversation by questioning the other person's credibility.

Stereotyping
The abuser may use negative stereotypes about the victim's race, gender, sexuality, or other identity.

Using compassionate words
The abuser may try to smooth over a situation by using kind words, like "I love you".

Telling white lies
The abuser may tell white lies or deny something even if they have proof.

Making you doubt your judgment
The abuser may try to make you doubt your own judgment and mistrust others.

Gaslighting can build up gradually, and the abuser's actions may seem harmless at first. Over time, the victim may become confused, anxious, isolated, and depressed.

The term "gaslighting" comes from the 1944 film Gaslight and became popular in the mid-2010s.

ExDancer

What exactly does 'gaslighting' mean? I'd thought it was an expression young people used when a girl/boy friend suddenly started ignoring them.

that is called ghosting

ExDancer

What exactly does 'gaslighting' mean? I'd thought it was an expression young people used when a girl/boy friend suddenly started ignoring them.

That's ghosting

This is gaslighting and it's not a new thing. thepsychologygroup.com/gaslighting-how-to-recognize-it-and-what-to-say-when-it-happens/

Reading comments from people who access to news that I dont:

"I read about this in the NYT and it said she had gone to gynecologists and neurologists to try to find out what was causing certain symptoms she was experiencing and none of the doctors could offer an explanation. That's pretty troubling to read, too."

"Not only couldn’t offer an explanation, blew her off , especially since the husband accompanied and said he thought she was getting dementia."

-----------------------------------------------------------
Evil man

The abused got repeatedly re-abused because of the invalidation of others due to the lies told by her own husband. May justice be done and in future I hope society will be more aware to look beneath the surface and ask questions. In any case, IF SHE DID have dementia, she would have been more vulnerable to abuse (and showed actual signs of abuse) so I think the professionals who failed her should also take blame for the lack of safeguarding.

What exactly does 'gaslighting' mean? I'd thought it was an expression young people used when a girl/boy friend suddenly started ignoring them.

The police said she was clearly unconscious and snoring in some of the films, for anyone who hasn't read the linked to articles

Copied and posted conversation from other SM that makes a good point:

"Man, one thing I thought was great about aging as a woman was becoming invisible and undesirable to men... But not even then are we safe. How awful disturbing and disgusting. And that so many men partook in this... Revolting"

"Yep. For these men the appeal of the act is not the woman or her appearance, it's the taboo nature of the act itself. So it really doesn't matter who the victim is and what they look like. No one is truly safe from sexual violence like this."

"Unfortunately a lot of younger men get off on "breeding" a woman old enough to be their mother or grandmother as well. There are posts about it. You're rght, it's not about looks, it's about the taboo, which then becomes a fetish or paraphilia."

This is a public case and all people need to make sure they look out for each other by listening and being aware Not to invalidate people who have problems or to believe the very charming partner, but to look beyond the surface and to see the signs that are there, blatantly- the illness, the MH, the suffering...

Let no one's suffering be invalidated any more.

He should be hung, drawn and quartered!!!!

Mme Pelicot is brave beyond words. I know she has attempted to end her life several times since finding out, and who could blame her? But she is seeing this through, as is her daughter who was also drugged, and I think they are both very special ladies!!

Yes, she was so gaslighted. Everyone else thought they were in a happy marriage too, to the point that if she had left him before the evidence perhaps she would have been criticised. He seemed caring taking her to the Dr's and who wouldn't want to believe that their husband loved them?

That's the problem with abusers and narcs, they can turn on the charm when other people are present and you always hope you get that kind , charming version back again, because that's the version you fell in love with- but it's an act. As the years go on, you only get that when other's are present.

People should never judge when a relationship ends because no one knows what anyone goes through behnd closed doors. Heaven knows they do though, especially when the (charming and very plausible) abuser tells lies.

BlueBelle, I would never judge you He was that abusive she thought she was in a happy marriage.

It has taken 4 years to get to court. They tried to find as many of the men involved as possible

BlueBelle

Oops and JJ Please don’t judge I ve lived through an abusive relationship to a very very charming man who was adored by many I m not naive but this case is way beyond abusive
I still find things about this case severely incomprehensible
The evidence is there on the computer and he’s admitted it so it definitely happened There are even doubts about whether there could have been things happen to the daughter too apparently she has written a book about it so presumably this case has taken a while to come to court ?

keepingquiet the truth came out as he was upskirting women someone must have complained the police looked at his computer and all the 10 years of images were there

A truly unusual case of total depravity I read somewhere they may be a suspected murder involved too

Bluebelle, I'm sorry if you felt I was judging. I'm the last person who would ever judge you as I've lived with an abuser.
I know just how these guys operate, but these days I choose to educate others, because I wasn't believed due to how "charming" he was.

I think people need to know that people like this exist. Mine was not as extreme as this, but still pretty bad. With the rise of young men following misogynistic people like the Tate's, I feel it's my duty to bust the myth. I don't mean to judge anyone, just to expose these men and how people protect them.

Sago

I have struggled to read this dreadful story.
I really do not know how Gisele Pelicot has got through each day in court.

Her bravery and that of her children is quite incredible.
Her waiving her anonymity was her way of reversing the shame.

We have to come to terms with the fact that supposedly normal upstanding people can be such animals.

I recently went to the ladies loos in a big supermarket, there was a man in there urinating with the door half open.

I challenged him as did another lady, my husband said, I’m sure it was innocent, I was furious with him, you know when there are no urinals you have walked into the wrong one!

This man clearly got his kicks from invading a female space and to a degree exposing himself.
This may seem petty, but these men often do go on to commit further sexual crimes.

Gisele Pelicot thought for months her husbands only crime was “upskirting” in a supermarket.
Her shock at hearing the truth she said was like being hit by a tsunami.

I pray she recovers from her ordeal and has a happier life ahead of her.

Your husband's attitude it sadly typical. Men do not stand up for women these days the way they should. Just look at our politicians who won't stand up for women and stand up for men all the time.

All the things we see now about men invading women's spaces and sports is supported by men because of their silence, acceptance and lack of support.

keepingquiet

So all this was filmed? How did the truth come out? I'm sorry I haven't been following this story. It sounds horrendous.

The police searched their home after he was reported for up skirting and found the files

www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/sep/05/french-woman-world-fell-apart-alleged-rapes-men-invited-by-husband-gisele-pelicot

Oops and JJ Please don’t judge I ve lived through an abusive relationship to a very very charming man who was adored by many I m not naive but this case is way beyond abusive
I still find things about this case severely incomprehensible
The evidence is there on the computer and he’s admitted it so it definitely happened There are even doubts about whether there could have been things happen to the daughter too apparently she has written a book about it so presumably this case has taken a while to come to court ?

keepingquiet the truth came out as he was upskirting women someone must have complained the police looked at his computer and all the 10 years of images were there

A truly unusual case of total depravity I read somewhere they may be a suspected murder involved too