So where will they go?

ronib

Casdon surely Starmer was using prison sentences as a blunt instrument to stop rioters? Without thinking it through?

Some were repeat offenders and and had been imprisoned previously, so obviously prison did not work for them.

Others were first time offenders so would they normally have been sentenced to prison or given an alternative sentence? It would be interesting to know.

Letting so many prisoners out on licence does smack of desperation and the need to hold these rioters up as an example to others.

escaped

So if he knew that fact, he must also have known how bad the economy was, no need for the faux outrage.

The faux outraged is all part of KS’s plan to disregard his election promises of

No rises in tax, VAT or NI

So if he knew that fact, he must also have known how bad the economy was, no need for the faux outrage.

Mollygo

^How is it Starmer's responsibility, when the previous government had already announced it was going to release some prisoners early and it had 14 years to build new prisons?^

Because he’s done it.
We can blame the previous government for lots of things but Starmer did it knowing that the facilities are not in place to deal with the mass exit.

He also knew that the previous government had been planning to release prisoners early.

Whoever is PM the problems remain, Starmer is trying to improve services and expand the economy. We all have to tighten our belt because it’s obvious we are living beyond our means.
Today he is planning to reform the NHS, unless he restricts demand he will fail, because demand is infinite, that is why other reforms have failed. We have demanded ever more expensive procedures as our right, no other country has unlimited demand. Norway which has a far stronger economy that the UK you have to pay to access healthcare, there is an upper threshold but initially you pay. Norway also has higher general taxation than UK.

Looking at the economy in general, it’s reasonable to borrow to expand the economy, to maintain the social spending, we have got to pay more and demand less. I applaud Starmer for trying, judging by the current hostility to WFA he will struggle to achieve the aims.

Nanna8 Rebecca Long Bailey is the alternative.

Dreadful man, but where’s the alternative? He will make more and more ‘mistakes’ and then it will all change again- gets to be boring really. The same the whole world over, sadly.

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the Estonia solution. Estonia has ofered thr UK use of it's surplus prison spaces. All the non-UK nationals in UK prisons could have been sent to Estonia to complete their sentances. This would have left capacity in UK prisons and given the current ?government? time to build more capacity in UK. Like everything else with Starmer, he ignores questions he does not want to answer. Pity he can't disappear into the "black hole" he is so fond of mentioning ad nauseam, and take Reeves with him!

We are where we are though
True, and we are paying Starmer and the LP to set it out now, regardless of what other governments didn’t do in the past.

I’m concerned about the decision to put a length of sentence limit of 4 years to decide whether or not they should get early release.

If what I read earlier about someone who stabbed their victim to death was only give a 2 1/2 year sentence, meaning he is eligible for early release it makes a nonsense of ^violent prisoners will not be eligible for early release.

Mollygo

Casdon
Since you ask,
Personally I’d have been looking into the problem of increasing numbers of prisoners even as far back as the year 2000 or even before if you want to do that.
Governments knew that -they could read the statistics. That was the time to do something about it, not leave it till now, with each government blaming the other for not doing anything about it, resulting in the release of prisoners, drug addicts and even violent people as long as their sentence wasn’t more than 4 years.

But then, it’s not my job. I don’t get paid 2 salaries to make decisions like that.

We are where we are though Mollygo, it’s what happens immediately that this thread is about. There is a huge amount that could have been done in the past, and can be done in future of course.

maddyone

The alternative Casdon would have been to deport the 10,000 foreign nationals who are currently languishing in our prisons.

That’s not the answer. These are people who have committed crimes in the UK, they aren’t people who are for extradition because they have committed crimes in their own country. No country sends foreigners back to their home country for crimes they have committed here.

Casdon
Since you ask,
Personally I’d have been looking into the problem of increasing numbers of prisoners even as far back as the year 2000 or even before if you want to do that.
Governments knew that -they could read the statistics. That was the time to do something about it, not leave it till now, with each government blaming the other for not doing anything about it, resulting in the release of prisoners, drug addicts and even violent people as long as their sentence wasn’t more than 4 years.

But then, it’s not my job. I don’t get paid 2 salaries to make decisions like that.

The alternative Casdon would have been to deport the 10,000 foreign nationals who are currently languishing in our prisons.

Casdon surely Starmer was using prison sentences as a blunt instrument to stop rioters? Without thinking it through?

Mollygo

^How is it Starmer's responsibility, when the previous government had already announced it was going to release some prisoners early and it had 14 years to build new prisons?^

Because he’s done it.
We can blame the previous government for lots of things but Starmer did it knowing that the facilities are not in place to deal with the mass exit.

Tell us the alternative?

Mollygo

^How is it Starmer's responsibility, when the previous government had already announced it was going to release some prisoners early and it had 14 years to build new prisons?^

Because he’s done it.
We can blame the previous government for lots of things but Starmer did it knowing that the facilities are not in place to deal with the mass exit.

Well said Mollygo

Wyllow3

*But what were the alternatives*

For either the last government, or Starmer?

If there are no prison places, there are no prison places!

The alternative Wyllow, was to deport 10,000 foreign criminals.
But neither Sunak nor Starmer were man enough to make that hard choice!

Allowing prisoners to serve only 40% of their sentences is wrong on anyone’s watch.
Who says crime doesn’t pay?

I am not one sided, as many on here are.

I believe the last government was totally wrong to allow the prison population to build up as they did. I believe the last government should have accelerated the prison building program. I believe that the last government were wrong to fail to deport the 10,000 foreign prisoners who are languishing in our prisons.
I will say when I see failures of the last government.

Nonetheless the actions of Starmer in getting the judges and top police officers into Downing Street to tell them to be extremely tough on the rioters was wrong because he was fully aware of the effect that would have on the prison population. More appropriate punishments would have been fines, tags (therefore home confinement) and community service. A few, guilty of the most serious crimes such as arson, should have received custodial sentences.

Mollygo

^How is it Starmer's responsibility, when the previous government had already announced it was going to release some prisoners early and it had 14 years to build new prisons?^

Because he’s done it.
We can blame the previous government for lots of things but Starmer did it knowing that the facilities are not in place to deal with the mass exit.

This!

Did you see the champagne popping outside the prisons, the yobs in their element. How sickening and worrying fir victims families, What a travesty, there is nothing lined up to monitor these people, work wise, or accommodation, they are not tagged, no supervision, people that have committed violent acts just serving a few months. No thought for the families of their victims. It was ok locking people up after the riots so in order to house them they let even more violent ones out. The country has never felt less safe. Keir doesn't care, he's more far left than Corbyn and that’s saying something. The worst thing you can do in this country is something like tax evasion that's considered far worse than a murderer.
Everybody's disgusted by this. People should carry an Identity card if they don't like it that's too bad. They don’t get a job, housing or hospital care, their choice. Its about time oeopke were accountable.

Sunak allowed the situation to build up to breaking point, then calls an election. He could have started the process of early release earlier, himself, to avoid the crisis, but he chose not to.

But what were the alternatives

For either the last government, or Starmer?

If there are no prison places, there are no prison places!

How is it Starmer's responsibility, when the previous government had already announced it was going to release some prisoners early and it had 14 years to build new prisons?

Because he’s done it.
We can blame the previous government for lots of things but Starmer did it knowing that the facilities are not in place to deal with the mass exit.

WelwynWitch3

Unfortunately many of those released early will be back inside quite soon, a lot of them are habitual offenders. We already have a soft justice system and it is only going to get worst. Probation Office are already at breaking point how can they be expected to adequately oversee released prisoners. Oh dear Keir, your responsibility, the buck stops with you!

How is it Starmer's responsibility, when the previous government had already announced it was going to release some prisoners early and it had 14 years to build new prisons?