“I’m gonna get lit” Thank you Keir.

People always seem to forget that Labour closed more coal mines than the Conservatives post war.

Clement Attlee's Labour government closed 101 pits between 1947 and 1951; Macmillan (Conservative) closed 246 pits between 1957 and 1963; Wilson (Labour) closed 253 in his two terms in office between 1964 and 1976; Heath (Conservative) closed 26 between 1970 and 1974; and Thatcher (Conservative) closed Clement Attlee's Labour government closed 101 pits between 1947 and 1951; Macmillan (Conservative) closed 246 pits between 1957 and 1963; Wilson (Labour) closed 253 in his two terms in office between 1964 and 1976; Heath (Conservative) closed 26 between 1970 and 1974; and Thatcher (Conservative) closed 115

It's interesting seeing GenZ's reaction to Margaret Thatcher. They think she was a heroine. Forward thinking in saving the planet. That's the youngster's take on it.

flappergirl

The prisons are overcrowded thanks to 14 years of Tory misrule. They promised new prisons and were warned by Police Chiefs that the situation was at breaking point, but they chose to ignore it. Their answer was not to imprison people that should be. So, the result is that more criminals have left Court with suspended sentences or community orders than ever before. The Tories had also planned exactly the same early release system as Labour.

If you're worried about the early release scheme, you should be even more worried about the criminals walking the streets who were given those suspended sentences under the Tories rather than being locked up.

It absolutely astounds me that some posters seem oblivious to the fact that prisons have been poised to explode for years. That the Tories reneged on their pledge to build more prisons. That thousands of criminals have been given suspended sentences and leave Court smirking their heads off. That Rishi Sunak received the direst warning about the situation and did nothing and that if the Tories had returned to power they would have implement the early release scheme. How can anyone not know any of this?

They should have put those, hardly used, Nightingale hospitals to good use then.

Rekarie

I've just read that one prisoner was released and seconds later re-arrested!

Yeh, I was just saying that- they all said they would vote for Starmer, but come the next GE, if they aren’t banged up already, be either too hungover, or drugged up to get out of bed to vote 🤣

Rekarie

People always seem to forget that Labour closed more coal mines than the Conservatives post war.

Clement Attlee's Labour government closed 101 pits between 1947 and 1951; Macmillan (Conservative) closed 246 pits between 1957 and 1963; Wilson (Labour) closed 253 in his two terms in office between 1964 and 1976; Heath (Conservative) closed 26 between 1970 and 1974; and Thatcher (Conservative) closed Clement Attlee's Labour government closed 101 pits between 1947 and 1951; Macmillan (Conservative) closed 246 pits between 1957 and 1963; Wilson (Labour) closed 253 in his two terms in office between 1964 and 1976; Heath (Conservative) closed 26 between 1970 and 1974; and Thatcher (Conservative) closed 115

It's interesting seeing GenZ's reaction to Margaret Thatcher. They think she was a heroine. Forward thinking in saving the planet. That's the youngster's take on it.

I haven't forgotten that . There is a huge difference between closing mines because of exhausted supplies and/or lack of safety, and closing them because of spite against the unions.

But none of that has anything to do with 'bringing the country to its knees', has it?

I'm not sure of the relevance of the reaction of Gen Z. It all sounds rather odd to me, in any case. Does a whole generation have a reaction to something that happened long before they were born? Why would they all feel the same? Who commissioned the survey, and why, and which Gen Zs took part - were they aware of the issues, and if so how?

Well we keep being told the country is on its knees. With a black hole getting ever deeper because of pay rises and funding for greener steel.
I’m not dismissing any of those needs, but I don’t get the “take from the pensioners who can’t fight back” whilst digging the black hole even deeper.
Attacking pensioners seems to be a LP strategy.
Happened last time with an impact that’s still being felt and now happening again.

I don't understand why people are saying there is an attack on pensioners.

The WFP has been withdrawn, and undoubtedly there are some pensioners who, like some younger people and those of middle age, will struggle to pay bills to privatised energy companies. I wish the government had dealt with it differently.

However, there are other older people who are more concerned about IHT, and who can afford expensive holidays. Taking the payment from them is not an 'attack', and is not in any way I can see 'digging a black hole even deeper'. I don't even know what that means . It seems to me only fair that working towards ensuring that everyone can pay, rather than giving money to a group of people based on age.

If the new energy company succeeds then there will be no need for payments, which is as it should be, and people of all ages will be able to pay without difficulty.

Doodledog, are you really suggesting that Margaret Thatcher was being spiteful? That's most amusing. So, were all the mines closed by Labour due to bad repair/safety issues? But the ones closed by Heath weren't? Labour = good, Tory = bad?

Please do some research about why the mines had to be closed.

Also take a look on Tiktok to see what Gen Z have had to say. As you know the campaign against fossil fuel is very important to the younger generation. Closing coal mines? Good for her.

Scargill was desperate to bring down Margaret Thatcher. One could almost say he was being spiteful. But he failed.

I didn’t find it remotely amusing.

Over my long life I have come to believe they are all dreadful. Just have to choose the least dreadful and the least self- serving.

Desdemona

I really can't believe all the horrible things that have been happening since Labour got in.

It was terrible before, but I can't help thinking it is now worse!

All I want to see is the news headline, STARMER and LABOUR are OUT. Starmer is a smug little nobody.

Greyisnotmycolour

In a letter on 27 June, police chiefs also urged Sunak to take “immediate action to begin to address this crisis and mitigate its worse impacts”

Sunak chose to ignore advice.

Sunak ignored most advice. His wife only started paying tax when her "non dom" scam was exposed.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a decent government, the present one is the worst. They want to tax everything until people have no money for basic living. Whoever said "Rachel Reeves Queen of Thieves" was right, they will tax the cost on your back soon ( the one you are wearing indoors because you can't afford heating)

Sodapop
'Release the prisoners early to ease the pressure on prison staff etc. This will just increase pressure on probation staff, council staff and police. An ill conceived plan.'
Exactly 💯

Its no good building more prisons, its getting to the heart of the matter. You can’t just house people together without rehabilitation. Prison is punishment, losing your freedom and rehabilitation. The woman who went on holiday leaving her 12 year old to go to court aline. What chance has that lad got? Glad the judge fined her £1200. Then you multiply that by thousands, no parenting, no role models in their lives, no one cares so they end in the streets in gangs with knives, also have that many people in this country who we don’t know what or who they are, We are broken. What a brilliant idea fast tracking the rioters and letting rapists and murderers out in exchange, very nice for their victims, don't they matter, its a disgrace Is this how we are to be governed act, then think it out after. Social workers with too heavy work loads frightened to go in to the homes they are sent too, that's the reality. We need more police, less form filling and criticising everything they do, more probation officers and health visitors

Its about time to stop point scoring about your party and look at the realities not blindly sticking up for bad decisions just because you voted for them.

The people imprisoned following the riots had committed serious offences. The prisons were overcrowded. Space had to be made or the police couldn’t arrest people committing serious offences right now.
Of course there are problems but I’ve seen no one who criticised the government coming up with any suggestions on how better to manage the mess we are in.

We have a lawless group in society, that isn’t new. Look at Hogarth’s 17th century cartoons, read Dickens. We haven’t been managing the problem consistently. The past 14 years saw services aimed at reducing crime, substance misuse, anti social behaviour destroyed.

It’s a big task but moaning about the government withiut putting forward constructive suggestions won’t change a thing.

Iam64 the only thing we can do is moan and/or write to our MP’s, whoever the Government of the day happens to be.

Coming up with suggestions on a forum designed primarily for older folks will hold no sway. Especially as this Government has already shown its contempt to pensioners!

It’s a big task but moaning about the government without putting forward constructive suggestions won’t change a thing.
Very true. And even those who try to find solutions instead of constantly dragging down the government will need to find ways to pay for them after all the years of cuts.

But it might add an interesting dimension to the debate. It may also give helpful suggestions to include in those letters to our MPs

Iam64

But it might add an interesting dimension to the debate. It may also give helpful suggestions to include in those letters to our MPs

It would be so much better than just hearing for the millionth time that fourteen years of incompetence haven't been erased in under 70 days, that's for sure. What are people supposed to say to that? At least, as you say, solutions could be discussed.

X posted with Doodledog there - I was responding to GG13.

I agree with Doodledog, no surprise there. I despaired as things got worse and worse under the previous government. The current government faces an uphill battle because all our public services have been deliberately run down

GrannyGravy13

Iam64 the only thing we can do is moan and/or write to our MP’s, whoever the Government of the day happens to be.

Coming up with suggestions on a forum designed primarily for older folks will hold no sway. Especially as this Government has already shown its contempt to pensioners!

Yes GG13, and posting on here will simply raise another flurry of defence posts, suggesting that this government need protecting, rather than the defenders suggesting ways to deal with situations.

I can’t follow that, Molly. Are you saying we have to just accept all the moans as justified or shut up? I’m not in government so don’t feel responsible for suggesting anything, but I’m not constantly saying that everything they do is wrong, when sometimes there is no alternative that I can think of.

How can someone think a policy is wrong without knowing what would work better, though?

My posts are not ‘defence posts’. I don’t do knee-jerk thinking. As I’ve said, I do criticise the government when I think they’ve got it wrong. It’s just that I think they have got a lot right.

Allsorts

Its no good building more prisons, its getting to the heart of the matter. You can’t just house people together without rehabilitation. Prison is punishment, losing your freedom and rehabilitation. The woman who went on holiday leaving her 12 year old to go to court aline. What chance has that lad got? Glad the judge fined her £1200. Then you multiply that by thousands, no parenting, no role models in their lives, no one cares so they end in the streets in gangs with knives, also have that many people in this country who we don’t know what or who they are, We are broken. What a brilliant idea fast tracking the rioters and letting rapists and murderers out in exchange, very nice for their victims, don't they matter, its a disgrace Is this how we are to be governed act, then think it out after. Social workers with too heavy work loads frightened to go in to the homes they are sent too, that's the reality. We need more police, less form filling and criticising everything they do, more probation officers and health visitors

Its about time to stop point scoring about your party and look at the realities not blindly sticking up for bad decisions just because you voted for them.

Well put 👏👏👏👏

Doodledog

I don't understand why people are saying there is an attack on pensioners.

The WFP has been withdrawn, and undoubtedly there are some pensioners who, like some younger people and those of middle age, will struggle to pay bills to privatised energy companies. I wish the government had dealt with it differently.

However, there are other older people who are more concerned about IHT, and who can afford expensive holidays. Taking the payment from them is not an 'attack', and is not in any way I can see 'digging a black hole even deeper'. I don't even know what that means . It seems to me only fair that working towards ensuring that everyone can pay, rather than giving money to a group of people based on age.

If the new energy company succeeds then there will be no need for payments, which is as it should be, and people of all ages will be able to pay without difficulty.

Of course all pensioners should be means tested but the government should up the level in which the pensioners can claim for pension credits.
It’s scandalous that these government ministers can claim HA for second homes.. RR claimed over £3700, that would have paid a dozen pensioners their HA, it’s a poor do if they can’t heat their second homes with the hefty wages they earn.

I agree that the pension credit level should be higher. I don’t make a connection between that and work expenses though. That’s a false equivalence.

Doodledog

I agree that the pension credit level should be higher. I don’t make a connection between that and work expenses though. That’s a false equivalence.

I don’t see it as an equivalence, more factual. If MPs can claim to heat their homes whilst earning what they do, then saying pensioners shouldn't be able to claim is difficult to see as fair.