Am I alone in finding this so tawdry?

LizzieDrip you seem to have forgotten (or perhaps you were not in GN) that since GN’s inception there has been a Conservative Government.

The constant euphoria from those who were not in support of the Conservatives every time a story which was less than favourable was in the MSM and thread after thread denigrating the Conservatives with a mixture of glee at their misdemeanours (true or false) and outrage at any gifts received was a daily occurrence.

Being the Government of the day is hard, everything they do, say or accept will be put under the microscope, and rightly so…

Lisaangel10

Donorgate will rumble on. I think there’s a lot more to come.
Rachel Thieves recorded £7,500 for clothes for herself and put them down as “office expenses”. Who would call clothes an office expense?

I think you’re right, in that there is a lot more to come. MPs of all parties benefit, you only have to look at the Westminster accounts to see that, and if the donations and gifts cease it will completely change the nature of how parliament operates. I wonder how that will go down with MPs, and how the funding of election campaigns will happen in future if the government are forced by the media attention to change the rules around this?

name calling usually occurs when an argument is lost

Wow! If we apply that same logic, the argument about donations and freebies must be well and truly lost then. The name-calling of KS, RR & AR on here is, quite frankly, appalling!

GrannyGravy13

LizzieDrip grubby little media oiks name calling usually occurs when an argument is lost…

👏👏👏

Those hard working taxpayers are the people who brought us news of all Boris’s doings, which were welcomed with open arms. It’s a bit hypocritical to condemn them for doing the same job on Starmer.

True GG13 If the Guardian had reported it ‘grubby little oiks’ would not have been a reference!

LizzieDrip grubby little media oiks name calling usually occurs when an argument is lost…

Donorgate will rumble on. I think there’s a lot more to come.
Rachel Thieves recorded £7,500 for clothes for herself and put them down as “office expenses”. Who would call clothes an office expense?

Lord Ali, gave Sue Gray’s son £10,000 in the run up to the election, Liam Conlon is MP for Beckenham and Penge (also chair if the Labour Party Irish Society)

However you try to play this down, it is not good optics especially after the Labour Party has decried every gift given to Conservative MPs over the last 14 years.

I am deeply disappointed with this government so far, but not in the least surprised!

I have never imagined that all politicians are squeaky clean. But compared with the dishonesty and total absence of integrity that has characterised British political life for over a decade, this is all mere trivia and I can take it in my stride. If this is the worst the media can dig up, then I count us all very lucky

Hear, hear Luckygirl👏👏👏

And I’m sure the grubby little media oiks are working night and day to dig up anything they can find to discredit KS. The fact that they’re trying to create a so-called ‘scandal’ out of a non-story speaks volumes.

I totally disagree that donors to political parties are always buying favours, bribing or buying access. Perhaps some try but the whole political system is propped up by donors big and small supporting different parties, without them how do you think we'd fund anyone standing for election? There are costs involved in running a democracy and those costs come from donors, whether it's big business, union subs or individual people.
I could buy my friend a suit to wear at an important interview because I want him to look smart and feel good and that's a gift. It doesn't mean I'm going to try to gain an advantage from my friend if she gets the job. I've a friend who has a holiday home which I've used many times foc. I've frequently let friends use our apartment ( actually got a friend's OH living there now foc.) Lord Alli is friends with senior members of the LP and has supported the LP for over 30 years both in and out of government. Tbh I find this idea that if you give someone a gift it's linked to gaining an advantage of some kind extremely sad. It's not how I live my life and I'm confident that I'm in the majority, the difference is some have more to share than others.

Foul , greedy people. Not representative of the populace at all. Decent people don’t seem to go in for a political career these days.

Let’s face it, they are not gifts. Someone will be expecting something in return, they are bribes

The expenses scandal had nothing to do with gifts and donations. It was about claiming allowable expenses for second homes.

Whilst I agree that the Labour leader and some Cabinet colleagues have made fools of themselves by accepting gifts and donations that - arguably - help them do their work, surely the whole problem lies with the rules, not the individuals who have been named and shamed.

Does anyone know if the gifts and donations that MPs and Ministers receive are taxed as benefits-in-kind?

Someone up-thread mentioned another employer who pays for their new employees to wear smart suits to work and there are more employers out (eg banks) there who just give generous bonuses on top of salaries to their staff.

I thought all the over-generous rules had been abolished in the wake of the expenses scandal but I was obviously very naive to have believed that.

It has been excruciating to hear Ministers insisting that the claims are in order simply because they have been declared.

IMHO it's about time that the system of donations and gifts to MPs and the practice of lobbying were done away with. These things just give MPs etc a sense of entitlement and to the general public make MPs etc greedy, grasping and corrupt.

The Education Secretary taking mone y
For a fortieth birthday party because she saw it as a political opportunity Why don't they do some good with all these donations after all MPs earn enough already and they Labour sneered at conservative party so much over a party But labour can get away with it they got away with what looked like a party in lockdown because it was seen as a work event

Galaxy

Integrity, honesty, decency, they all matter, especially from ones own 'side'.

Of course they do Galaxy, I don’t think anybody has disputed that. There’s not a person alive who isn’t fallible. When their weaknesses are exposed it is painful, when our own are, even more so.

Integrity, honesty, decency, they all matter, especially from ones own 'side'.

In the words of Lynsey DePaul
It's a storm in a teacup
Brewing up double all those tiny little troubles
A storm in a teacup
It really doesn't matter
If it pitter-pitter-patters all the day

Meanwhile, the actual business of government goes on, and the government will learn from this, which is a good thing.

Compared to the Tories, many of whom accepted illegal gifts, fiddled their expenses and partied whilst people were dying, this is very small fry. It is also all perfectly permissible. Of course, the press will spin it for all it's worth and make it sound underhand or even corrupt. People have selective amnesia.

However, I would say that it was very foolish of Labour to accept gifts as they surely knew the media would have a field day, especially as a new government.

Personally, I think that corporate gifts should be off the cards for all politicians no matter what persuasion. No ifs, no buts.

ronib

So I guess you heard the row over the pass given to a Lord Alli for free access to Downing Street? foxie48
Also let’s not forget Starmer should be well versed in the law as he was a career lawyer for a long time. He of all people should know the legal position of accepting substantial gifts. We would have some excuses …..

I've only read what has been in the media, a temporary pass that was returned weeks ago, I know nothing more than that. With regard to Starmer accepting gifts, I assume there was nothing illegal about it as long as he declared it. With regard to "ministerial gifts" they only apply to Ministers and Starmer was not a "minister" when the gifts were made, the rules are quite clear. I just think there are much more important things to consider but that's just my opinion. I'll be interested to hear what happens at the conference and later what is announced in the budget, I'll make my judgements on that basis.

I have never imagined that all politicians are squeaky clean. But compared with the dishonesty and total absence of integrity that has characterised British political life for over a decade, this is all mere trivia and I can take it in my stride. If this is the worst the media can dig up, then I count us all very lucky.

You can only judge what you have seen happen.
So you can judge Conservatives on the last 14 years.
You can judge Labour on 11 weeks.

Saying one is wrong does not mean you think the other is right.
Doing or accepting things you condemned in a different government is wrong. Excusing it on the grounds that it’s always been done is equally wrong, especially if you have previously condemned it.

So I guess you heard the row over the pass given to a Lord Alli for free access to Downing Street? foxie48
Also let’s not forget Starmer should be well versed in the law as he was a career lawyer for a long time. He of all people should know the legal position of accepting substantial gifts. We would have some excuses …..

Eleven weeks is no time to make a fair judgement.
Much easier to judge 14 years.

Well eleven weeks in by Labour and there’s not much ‘decency’ about. Grubbiness, yes.