Winter Fuel Payment what would be fair

The personal attacks on this site are getting worse and worse, why can't posters put their own point of view without resorting to insulting those who disagree?

I know it is often said that why should the very rich, the multi millionaires, the King get it but I always wonder do these people actually claim their state pension? I mean it would be loose change to the likes of them so would they bother?

theworriedwell

I know it is often said that why should the very rich, the multi millionaires, the King get it but I always wonder do these people actually claim their state pension? I mean it would be loose change to the likes of them so would they bother?

Just thought I suppose it is the principle of them being entitled rather than them actually getting the money so my post is probably irrelevant.

I dont think that the prime minister should have taken away the winter fuel payments from those pensioners that need it some of the forms that you have to fill in to get the payments are very long not.all pensioners have someone to help with the forms or have access to the internet .

knspol

The personal attacks on this site are getting worse and worse, why can't posters put their own point of view without resorting to insulting those who disagree?

If that was meant for me, I wasn't insulting anyone. I was saying that repeating slogans coined by others is not 'argument' or expressing an opinion - it is just repeating slogans.

There is more and more of that on here lately. Why can't people think for themselves and use their own wit if they want to make 'clever' jokes?

theworriedwell

I know it is often said that why should the very rich, the multi millionaires, the King get it but I always wonder do these people actually claim their state pension? I mean it would be loose change to the likes of them so would they bother?

Agreed. Mick Jagger was always mentioned when talking about things people didn't 'need' (back in the days when the zeitgeist on here was about boasting about second homes, cruises, fancy cars and so on, and not showing the slightest regard for those who might need more in benefits whilst finding ways to protect money against 'tax raids').

I could never picture him on the Number 45 on the way to keep warm in the library. Is he now deemed to be deserving of the WFP?

Doodledog

theworriedwell

I know it is often said that why should the very rich, the multi millionaires, the King get it but I always wonder do these people actually claim their state pension? I mean it would be loose change to the likes of them so would they bother?

Agreed. Mick Jagger was always mentioned when talking about things people didn't 'need' (back in the days when the zeitgeist on here was about boasting about second homes, cruises, fancy cars and so on, and not showing the slightest regard for those who might need more in benefits whilst finding ways to protect money against 'tax raids').

I could never picture him on the Number 45 on the way to keep warm in the library. Is he now deemed to be deserving of the WFP?

Here you go! A young Mick "on the buses".

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnqQgjBs8_0

I don’t think Starmer should have taken away the cold weather payments. There are so many of us in our eighties, born during WW2, so not BabyBoomers, who are Just Managing and don’t want to go down the Pension Credit route if we can avoid it. Though I may have to if I outlive my meagre savings. Trying to get it is a nightmare I’m told. It would take so much time and energy which a lot of us don’t have. The initial application form has 243 questions for starters. It takes 3-6 months for the DWP to respond. If you made a single mistake it’s rejected and you have to start over. The amount you receive only tops up your pension. You have to separately apply for every discount to Local Authority, TV, electricity, phone, etc etc. with yet more forms and documents. Not for the old/faint-hearted !

meanwhile another 15.3 billion £ has just gone in more foreign aid

@BevSec

Biglouis please keep on posting whatever you wish to. Your comments are not childish. I had to read many vile comments on here concerning both Nige and Boris, both of whom I admire as politicians, but I did not comment adversely and attack the posters

You may be sure that I take little account of the opinions of some random troll on the internet who I do not know or wish to know.

You dont need intelligence to post on Gransnet. Just an internet connection.

lamusica

I don’t think Starmer should have taken away the cold weather payments. There are so many of us in our eighties, born during WW2, so not BabyBoomers, who are Just Managing and don’t want to go down the Pension Credit route if we can avoid it. Though I may have to if I outlive my meagre savings. Trying to get it is a nightmare I’m told. It would take so much time and energy which a lot of us don’t have. The initial application form has 243 questions for starters. It takes 3-6 months for the DWP to respond. If you made a single mistake it’s rejected and you have to start over. The amount you receive only tops up your pension. You have to separately apply for every discount to Local Authority, TV, electricity, phone, etc etc. with yet more forms and documents. Not for the old/faint-hearted !

lamusica Don't believe all you hear! You won't have to answer 243 questions to obtain pension credit. Not only that, but there are people who can help you get it right first time.

If you're entitled to Pension Credit, you should apply for it.

Casdon

I think the pension credit threshold should be changed so that more people are eligible. They would then also receive other benefits not just a winter fuel allowance. I wonder if there is a way of them being alerted specifically, as there are thousands who are eligible but haven’t applied yet. I’d also like to see the personal allowance raised so that more people who now pay tax on a small income don’t have to do so.

Regarding the WFA, perhaps the government to give it up all those whose pensions are under £25,000 which would stop the richer pensioners receiving it. I have always thought it was wrong to give it to every pensioner regardless of the amount of pension(s) they receive. I notice MPs still get heating allowances. While on the subject could Starmer live on a basic state pension I wonder? He would have to go to SpecSavers then and buy his own clothes!

My 101 aunt lives in a residential home. She still received the WFA. Madness!

RVK1CR

Casdon

I think the pension credit threshold should be changed so that more people are eligible. They would then also receive other benefits not just a winter fuel allowance. I wonder if there is a way of them being alerted specifically, as there are thousands who are eligible but haven’t applied yet. I’d also like to see the personal allowance raised so that more people who now pay tax on a small income don’t have to do so.

Regarding the WFA, perhaps the government to give it up all those whose pensions are under £25,000 which would stop the richer pensioners receiving it. I have always thought it was wrong to give it to every pensioner regardless of the amount of pension(s) they receive. I notice MPs still get heating allowances. While on the subject could Starmer live on a basic state pension I wonder? He would have to go to SpecSavers then and buy his own clothes!

Surely it would be easier to increase the state pension by a flat rate of (say) £200 a year, which is what the WFA would have been worth this year. People would then pay their marginal tax rate on it.

I believe the allowance should be given to anyone regardless of age who claim Attendance Allowance, PIP or DLA. These people have already been assessed with health difficulties and their winters are harsh. Some have machinery which needs to be on 24/7 and to live in cold house cannot be right.

theworriedwell

I know it is often said that why should the very rich, the multi millionaires, the King get it but I always wonder do these people actually claim their state pension? I mean it would be loose change to the likes of them so would they bother?

Oh to have my state pension in my pocket as loose change! I would feel really rich if I had "spending money", there is never anything left for a treat. I expect many are in the same boat.

RVK1CR

theworriedwell

I know it is often said that why should the very rich, the multi millionaires, the King get it but I always wonder do these people actually claim their state pension? I mean it would be loose change to the likes of them so would they bother?

Oh to have my state pension in my pocket as loose change! I would feel really rich if I had "spending money", there is never anything left for a treat. I expect many are in the same boat.

Yes it would be nice but my point was do multi millionaires or billionaires bother claiming the SRP. It seems unlikely to me but then that might be why I'll never be a millionaire let alone a billionaire.

I wonder if anyone knows.

dayvidg

Why not just make it taxable? That way the reduction would be graduated with no 'cliff edge'.

Absolutely agree with you.

It should always have been means tested.

RVK1CR

Casdon

I think the pension credit threshold should be changed so that more people are eligible. They would then also receive other benefits not just a winter fuel allowance. I wonder if there is a way of them being alerted specifically, as there are thousands who are eligible but haven’t applied yet. I’d also like to see the personal allowance raised so that more people who now pay tax on a small income don’t have to do so.

Regarding the WFA, perhaps the government to give it up all those whose pensions are under £25,000 which would stop the richer pensioners receiving it. I have always thought it was wrong to give it to every pensioner regardless of the amount of pension(s) they receive. I notice MPs still get heating allowances. While on the subject could Starmer live on a basic state pension I wonder? He would have to go to SpecSavers then and buy his own clothes!

The problem with that is that someone who has paid into an occupational pension could find that this is enough to push them over the limit for claiming. Why is it fair to penalise people for working? Those with large pensions have paid larger amounts in, too.

The government wants to see more people in work, partly to build growth, and partly to do away with the need for immigrants to fill vacancies. The way to do that is not to penalise people for working by removing subsidies to those with more than a subsistence level of pension income. It's not an easy one to get right. Why would people bother to pay into a scheme if they could get as much by not paying in and instead getting allowances that would be refused if they had a bigger pension? The 'economically active' already prop up an unfeasible number of people, so the government doesn't want to encourage more people to take early retirement with fewer contributions and then have to make them up with means-tested allowances.

I don't know how the sums would add up wrt the 'black hole', but increasing the personal tax allowance for everyone to (say) £20k and then adding in more increase points so they form more of a slope than a couple of cliff edges would make more sense to me. That way there would be less of a clawback at various points on the scale, but people would pay a bit more as they earn more, or get more in pension - but not lose out on hundreds of pounds for crossing a line.

Well, my simple question certainly caused a somewhat heated response. Naturally everyone is fighting for their own corner but we must be realistic. We cannot afford to give such payments to those that do not need them. It is supposed to be to pay for sufficient heating and any payments must be means tested and this costs in administration. All views put forward here have valid points but also flaws. The budget might have some answers if we are lucky.

For those who could claim P Credit and do not, take the bull by the horns, pick up the phone and get in touch with many of the agencies that could help you successfully apply. Yes there will be a delay in getting it but when it is awarded it will be backdated to the date of application and you will get a lovely lump sum.

I worked with a charity giving benefit advice and we were very quick an good at completing the forms with our clients, it is not difficult or stressful!

DH and I have both received letters telling us about the changes to the WFP.

What a waste of time, resources, postage.

Elusivebutterfly

I think the same household income level as Child Benefit would be fair. A lot of younger people were complaining about rich pensioners getting an unnecessary benefit so this would make it equal.
Being household based, rather than individual, is fair. Very few single female pensioners have a high pension. Mine is above Pension Credit but below minimum wage, which I think would be the same for most women.

What if you're not a 'rich pensioner' though? What if you have no private pension? Those in higher tax brackets should not receive it as they can afford it. Others can't.

Why not alter the age at which can be claimed , ie 75/80, 66 is a bit young! At the same time make it taxable.

dayvidg

Why not just make it taxable? That way the reduction would be graduated with no 'cliff edge'.

I agree, this is the most obvious solution, but not everyone has to fill out a self-assessment tax return. It would however claw back the money from those of us who already fill one in.