Election Promises

Mollygo why are you measuring a promise against a shopping list of elements that haven’t been promised? That’s like saying you promised me breakfast but I won’t accept that even though I’m hungry, because I expect you to provide me with three meals a day and a glass of wine every evening.
I’m sure every part of the public sector has similar shopping lists, which of course you’d expect - but measuring against things which haven’t been promised and some of which cost large sums of money, and aren’t even under the direct control of the government anyway is a guarantee for failure. Bring on the realism.

ronib

LizzieDrip but all children do not have the same start in life. There will never be a level playing field regardless of type of school.
It’s quite interesting to read comments about being rich and not very bright. We are talking about children who have years of development ahead. Children as VAT cash cows - who would have thought it?

Think you’re missing the point entirely.

Of course all children don’t start life with equal chances, that’s why great state education is essential for ALL children, in all areas.

Education is a great leveller and creates life choices.

Increasing private school education to more people will create an even larger gap between the “haves” and the “have nots”

Those in independent schools don’t necessarily have better teachers and teaching, but inevitably will have much smaller classes, better facilities and better opportunities.

I’d like us to move away from the “old boy network”

We have some extremely good independent schools close to us, one of which is from 4-16 and is known as the “rich but dim” school, as we still have grammar schools which have a good percentage of the other independent and one prep school 11+ passes, though by no means the majority. A very large percentage of our grammar students now have intensive coaching.

I’d love to see a return to countrywide grammars, with ALL children routinely sitting the 11+ and 13+ as part of their mainstream schooling, and sat in their own schools.

Then I’d like more vocational schools, good comprehensive schools and a wide range of secondary choices to suit each child.

I went to Secondary Education for one academic year, in California. Mixed aged classes, similar ability, and summer school for all those not making good progress. It was a good model, with mandatory PE classes every day and early classes, so all finished school at 2:30pm

Cossy depending on what one of the neighbouring schools you are referring to, our boys went to one until it was bought lock stock and barrel and taken over by another private school.

We transferred them to the one next door which was co-ed, we are not what I consider to be rich and our children are for from dim

Local snobbery…

Casdon

Mollygo why are you measuring a promise against a shopping list of elements that haven’t been promised?
I agree. The vague words level playing field or equal opportunities sound good, but don’t actually promise anything IMO.

What do you think they mean? Is it simply the removal of private education?

I’ve spent time reading all the waffle on here about level playing fields.
I don’t believe it’s possible, so I have just pointed out what it would need to truly make it level. (Without the ability to level the parents.)
Do you believe the money acquiring strategies they are planning really make it possible to have a level playing field?
It seems a bit strange to me to promise breakfast clubs (good idea) free to all primary children, even those whose parents (like the better off pensioners) can well afford to give their children breakfast.

I just feel dreadfully sad that, yet again , we have a government who behave as though they have just won Euromillions and are now doing exactly what they want to do and hard cheese to the rest of us. Heartless , entitled and greedy.Beyond sad .

Mollygo

Casdon

Mollygo why are you measuring a promise against a shopping list of elements that haven’t been promised?
I agree. The vague words level playing field or equal opportunities sound good, but don’t actually promise anything IMO.

What do you think they mean? Is it simply the removal of private education?

I’ve spent time reading all the waffle on here about level playing fields.
I don’t believe it’s possible, so I have just pointed out what it would need to truly make it level. (Without the ability to level the parents.)
Do you believe the money acquiring strategies they are planning really make it possible to have a level playing field?
It seems a bit strange to me to promise breakfast clubs (good idea) free to all primary children, even those whose parents (like the better off pensioners) can well afford to give their children breakfast.

It’s a jigsaw puzzle of elements to create equality of access and take up for everybody, and my take on it is that you have to start somewhere or it is completely overwhelming. At the most basic level, which is all some schools in Wales currently offer, is a breakfast club only, starting at 8.20am, funding is given to the school to employ staff and for the food, if they demonstrate there is a demand, and the amount dependent on uptake. It’s not compulsory, but I read that 96% of schools offer at least that as a minimum. It’s a modest service but a building block. I’d rather sustainable long term modest changes than a promise that is undeliverable.

It's much like the bottle of milk that children used to get.
It didn't depend on how poor you were, or what home you came from.

Margaret Thatcher (milk snatcher) was much maligned for doing away with it.

I’m glad it’s not though MissAdventure, I never liked milk, and warm school milk tasting of turnips was double yuck. Toast and orange juice is much nicer!

The school bursar I spoke to last night said there would likely be an enormous take up at her school.
She explained what they do now and what difficulties already exist and what would arise if the take up was as she expected or even if it only doubled.
Her concerns were the lack of detail about the plans, some of which I highlighted before.
Her opinion was that details like timing of the breakfast club, funding for staff, provision and storage of resources etc. should have been published alongside the proposal.

For our bursar here in the NW, details like starting time-at the same time or later than preschool club, and again, provision and storage were top of the list.

It’s just new, and seems insurmountable though, she will work through it and make it happen, the same as they have done here, where I imagine there are exactly the same issues. I’m sure the details will follow, there’s almost a whole school year before it has to be offered.

This government has been in place 3 months. Of course the plans for breakfast clubs in every school aren’t yet established.

ronib - I suspect those of us you choose to lecture about not all children having an equal start in life have had greater direct work and life experience than you have in this area.

Every journey starts with one small step, as the nauseating, misty, internet pictures show us.

Mollygo

The school bursar I spoke to last night said there would likely be an enormous take up at her school.
She explained what they do now and what difficulties already exist and what would arise if the take up was as she expected or even if it only doubled.
Her concerns were the lack of detail about the plans, some of which I highlighted before.
Her opinion was that details like timing of the breakfast club, funding for staff, provision and storage of resources etc. should have been published alongside the proposal.

For our bursar here in the NW, details like starting time-at the same time or later than preschool club, and again, provision and storage were top of the list.

I expect that's why there's going to be a trial area. Hopefully, any glitches can be ironed out before being introduced nationally. As I've said a couple of times already, some schools already run breakfast clubs - and have for years. I was on the committee of a breakfast/after school club 20 years ago. Pupil Premium funding is often used and there are other funding streams.

FWIW
Our Pupil Premium is already well used for the children it’s intended to support, in a variety of ways.
Our before and after school clubs are paid for by the parents who use them.

That is worth repeating, it's not new, it's not for people who don't know how to cook or are too lazy to.

It's for anyone who needs to use it, usually because of work commitments.

MissAdventure

That is worth repeating, it's not new, it's not for people who don't know how to cook or are too lazy to.

It's for anyone who needs to use it, usually because of work commitments.

The biggest difference will be that it’s free.

Yes, it's a big plan.
I really hope it's carried through.

Has anyone a solution for parents who struggle to find the fees for children in special needs at private schools? Do you think the State should be educating all children including special needs? Or does the State only have adequate resources for high iq special needs children?

Nigel Farage’s mob are looking increasingly good. Labelling them far right is just silly desperation and makes people realise what a threat they are to the ‘establishment’ Watching different politicians in the UK, he is the only one who makes any sense just now.

nanna8 Noddy and Big Ears look better than this pretend socialist government.

nanna8 Could you explain your comments please?

Just why do you think he's looking good and making sense?

I'm afraid his looking good and making sense has bypassed me.

IMO he's a shameless grifter and nothing has changed.

ronib

nanna8 Noddy and Big Ears look better than this pretend socialist government.

Is that because they're "socialist" or "pretend"?

Would you prefer a more or less socialist governement?

Mollygo

FWIW
Our Pupil Premium is already well used for the children it’s intended to support, in a variety of ways.
Our before and after school clubs are paid for by the parents who use them.

In England schools are able to use Pupil Premium as they wish. Maybe it's different in Scotland. Some schools have decided it's an effective use of the funding to provide breakfast clubs - sometimes at no cost to the parents. It really depends on the circumstances of the school and the amount of funding received.

growstuff individual preferences are neither here nor there. The beast has a mind of its own.

What is happening to special needs pupils in private schools where parents can’t afford increased school fees? Does the local authority pay the bill if no alternative suitable State provision is available? Now that is an improvement if it happens.