But does he really 'understand'?

Doodledog

I am also on here less than usual, as it's so toxic.

But it isn’t toxic IMO 😄
It’s just airing of differing views. If you or anyone else can’t bear seeing criticism of the Labour government or PM then probably best I agree to not look at the political threads as much.
Tbf to Conservative posters, they have had to put up with a lot of criticism of their Party, some of which they will have agreed with and some not, but they had to take it on the chin.Now it’s Labour’s turn in the hot seat and it may make you uncomfortable but you have now to take it on the chin too.

Justified criticism is all well and good.
Criticism for things that have not even been done yet is a bit too far.

Just as people defend Harry and meghan sometimes, when people are being critical of ridiculous things.

Oreo

Doodledog

I am also on here less than usual, as it's so toxic.

But it isn’t toxic IMO 😄
It’s just airing of differing views. If you or anyone else can’t bear seeing criticism of the Labour government or PM then probably best I agree to not look at the political threads as much.
Tbf to Conservative posters, they have had to put up with a lot of criticism of their Party, some of which they will have agreed with and some not, but they had to take it on the chin.Now it’s Labour’s turn in the hot seat and it may make you uncomfortable but you have now to take it on the chin too.

Presumably that includes you, as you've claimed to be a Labour voter.

I'm so grateful, I'm not usually a Labour voter and have never voted Conservative. It's quite amusing watching people take chunks out of each other.

MayBee70

keepingquiet

When you know every single thing is being read and interpreted by others seeking to catch you out, is it any wonder there might be some 'filling' before giving your answer. Seems even a momentary silence can be damning.
Give the man a break.

I honestly can’t believe that, clicking onto gransnet there is yet another thread criticising the PM. And I’m sure that, as I write this, someone somewhere is thinking up another one.

Not unusual, believe you on the left were always happy to criticise other PMs . That's OK though I suppose. At least they didn't lose their street cred quite as quickly as this one.

MissAdventure

Justified criticism is all well and good.
Criticism for things that have not even been done yet is a bit too far.

Just as people defend Harry and meghan sometimes, when people are being critical of ridiculous things.

That's my POV, MissA.

I don't defend the LP slavishly - I am not a member and if I were I would still criticise what I saw as wrong. It's not criticism that bothers me it's vitriol and sniping, particularly when the criticism is not of things that have actually happened (eg scrapping the CT discount or removing bus passes) and when it descends into insults, (eg 'he is a nasty pasty and doesn't deserve to be PM😛').

Ah, well... any road up...

I agree with you Doodledog. I think the sniping says more about the mentality of the people sniping and using silly insults. I don't take any of them seriously.

Freya5

MayBee70

keepingquiet

When you know every single thing is being read and interpreted by others seeking to catch you out, is it any wonder there might be some 'filling' before giving your answer. Seems even a momentary silence can be damning.
Give the man a break.

I honestly can’t believe that, clicking onto gransnet there is yet another thread criticising the PM. And I’m sure that, as I write this, someone somewhere is thinking up another one.

Not unusual, believe you on the left were always happy to criticise other PMs . That's OK though I suppose. At least they didn't lose their street cred quite as quickly as this one.

I have pointed out many times that I am left of centre and was never a Corbynite. I have also pointed out that I have always made a point of writing to politicians if I think they have done something that’s good for the country. Even more so if it’s a Conservative MP that has been brave enough to go against the whip. I will always give praise where praise is due. But I haven’t found anything about most of the recent Conservative PM’s to praise and probably only praised their MP’s when they were brave enough to stand up to Johnson* and then Truss.
*and look how the party treated them

Freya5

MayBee70

keepingquiet

When you know every single thing is being read and interpreted by others seeking to catch you out, is it any wonder there might be some 'filling' before giving your answer. Seems even a momentary silence can be damning.
Give the man a break.

I honestly can’t believe that, clicking onto gransnet there is yet another thread criticising the PM. And I’m sure that, as I write this, someone somewhere is thinking up another one.

Not unusual, believe you on the left were always happy to criticise other PMs . That's OK though I suppose. At least they didn't lose their street cred quite as quickly as this one.

The lettuce did.

growstuff

I agree with you Doodledog. I think the sniping says more about the mentality of the people sniping and using silly insults. I don't take any of them seriously.

But it would be nice if we could believe that he did understand. Freezing pensioners will want his understanding.

I can't see how he couldn't understand.
He's not a stupid man, and I hesitate to say it, but his upbringing wasn't one of luxury. (That's me saying that, not Starmer, by the way)

He will surely have something up his sleeve to help those who most need it.
Need that is, not want.

kittylester

growstuff

I agree with you Doodledog. I think the sniping says more about the mentality of the people sniping and using silly insults. I don't take any of them seriously.

But it would be nice if we could believe that he did understand. Freezing pensioners will want his understanding.

Maybe he listened to people on here that queried why they were being given a payment that they didn’t need? As an aside can I just point out to everyone constantly criticising Labour that it isn’t actually their fault that the Conservatives made themselves totally unelectable ( and still are…).

MissAdventure

I can't see how he couldn't understand.
He's not a stupid man, and I hesitate to say it, but his upbringing wasn't one of luxury. (That's me saying that, not Starmer, by the way)

He will surely have something up his sleeve to help those who most need it.
Need that is, not want.

Well you'd hope so, but I really don't understand why they wouldn't say "don't worry, we aren't going to let it be a cliff face for people a few pounds over PC level, they won't be abandoned" There's been so much unrest, conference voted for the withdrawal to be stopped (yes I know that's a non binding vote) that surely if there were to be mitigations now is the time to tell us they exist, not in another month when it's been allowed to fester some more?

IF, at the end of Labour’s time in office …

*this country is in a worse economic state;
*the public sector is in an even more dire state;
*the PM has illegally closed down parliament for fear of losing a vote, and lied to the king;
*corruption on a huge scale by the government is uncovered (I’m talking £billions of useless contracts to mates, not legally declared donations)
*the PM has ridden roughshod over parliamentary rules and procedures …

THEN the Labour Party will, quite rightly, not win the next election, and I will criticise KS.

Until then, I’ll wait and see.

That’s your right LizzieDrip.
I’m sure you afford others the same right to criticise as things happen, just as they did during the previous government.
But I’m glad you’re commenting on things a previous government got wrong. When I do that about the actions of the previous Labour government which impact us now I am criticised for that.

kittylester

growstuff

I agree with you Doodledog. I think the sniping says more about the mentality of the people sniping and using silly insults. I don't take any of them seriously.

But it would be nice if we could believe that he did understand. Freezing pensioners will want his understanding.

But but but the idea that there will be millions of freezing pensioners is a myth. Moreover, if anybody (not just pensioners) can't afford to have heating £200 wouldn't have made a huge difference.

kittylester

growstuff

I agree with you Doodledog. I think the sniping says more about the mentality of the people sniping and using silly insults. I don't take any of them seriously.

But it would be nice if we could believe that he did understand. Freezing pensioners will want his understanding.

Maybe if people got their facts right and didn't use childish insults, he (and I - not that I matter) would have a better understanding.

growstuff to anyone on a low income, whether that be pension, benefits or salary £200 is a lot of money.

growstuff

kittylester

growstuff

I agree with you Doodledog. I think the sniping says more about the mentality of the people sniping and using silly insults. I don't take any of them seriously.

But it would be nice if we could believe that he did understand. Freezing pensioners will want his understanding.

But but but the idea that there will be millions of freezing pensioners is a myth. Moreover, if anybody (not just pensioners) can't afford to have heating £200 wouldn't have made a huge difference.

I agree, there won't be 10 million freezing pensioners, I don't know how many will suffer from cold this winter and neither do you. For some WFA would be £300.
if anybody (not just pensioners) can't afford to have heating £200 wouldn't have made a huge difference. If £200 wouldn't make a huge difference why are people on PC still getting it? Surely it's because the government think it will make a difference?

GrannyGravy13

growstuff to anyone on a low income, whether that be pension, benefits or salary £200 is a lot of money.

But it's a tiny fraction of fuel bills!

(And, excuse me, but I do know what it's like to have a low income.)

Rosie51

growstuff

kittylester

growstuff

I agree with you Doodledog. I think the sniping says more about the mentality of the people sniping and using silly insults. I don't take any of them seriously.

But it would be nice if we could believe that he did understand. Freezing pensioners will want his understanding.

But but but the idea that there will be millions of freezing pensioners is a myth. Moreover, if anybody (not just pensioners) can't afford to have heating £200 wouldn't have made a huge difference.

I agree, there won't be 10 million freezing pensioners, I don't know how many will suffer from cold this winter and neither do you. For some WFA would be £300.
if anybody (not just pensioners) can't afford to have heating £200 wouldn't have made a huge difference. If £200 wouldn't make a huge difference why are people on PC still getting it? Surely it's because the government think it will make a difference?

I'm not a mind reader, but I would imagine it's so the government can claim that the very poorest will still get it.

I've rarely seen this level of concern for other sections of society, when their entitlement to such an amount changes.

Quite the opposite, in fact.
It usually heads straight into lectures about being good money managers, batch cooking, driving to food banks, patting their bellies and being pleased that they'll be given more money, along with downright insults.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

growstuff to anyone on a low income, whether that be pension, benefits or salary £200 is a lot of money.

But it's a tiny fraction of fuel bills!

(And, excuse me, but I do know what it's like to have a low income.)

If it’s divided over the four coldest months £50 means the difference between being cold, or keeping your home heated to a level which is safe for your health.

Sitting with a blanket and extra clothes may keep your body warm, but the air you breathe is still cold and that can kill the elderly and vulnerable.

The annual threshold for Pension Credit is about £9,870. £200 is a very small percentage of that. I wrote before that people could save more if the standing charges were abolished. It's less than people were paying extra last year when fuel prices were increased dramatically (but have now fallen). Even for people on a very low income, it's chickenfeed.

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

growstuff to anyone on a low income, whether that be pension, benefits or salary £200 is a lot of money.

But it's a tiny fraction of fuel bills!

(And, excuse me, but I do know what it's like to have a low income.)

If it’s divided over the four coldest months £50 means the difference between being cold, or keeping your home heated to a level which is safe for your health.

Sitting with a blanket and extra clothes may keep your body warm, but the air you breathe is still cold and that can kill the elderly and vulnerable.

It's £4 a week. It's not difficult to build up a surplus over the summer for the winter months. There are other ways of ensuring more equality, so that everybody has enough money to buy essentials. Cue all the bleating about how there will never be equality (and people have always worked hard for what they've got and they're not letting anybody else have any of it) - so let's just continue dishing out crumbs such as WFA (and patting ourselves on the back).