But does he really 'understand'?

Isn't it an utter disgrace that people are having to wonder if they can heat their homes? Well ,some people.

How have we ended up like this ? A huge gap between the haves and have nots? Any semblance of public services detroyed?
I remember the Electricity Board, the Gas Board, the Council,, the Railways, the Youth Service.
Nobody was cowering under a blanket.

I was utterly opposed to the decisions relating to child benefit, for many reasons, I suppose for me my expectations of a labour government are higher.

There are times when I long for a 'like' button. Well said, Dd. 👏

I think that all but the most self-absorbed will understand that some people will suffer as a result of the withdrawal. Claiming the monopoly on being able to relate to others is not very fair, and does not address the issue, which is that few people are defending the policy.

What some of us are saying is that it is being used as a stick to beat KS by people who have previously (ie when they were not personally affected) expressed no compassion for benefit claimants whatsoever - in fact have written them off as scroungers. It is only when they themselves will lose out that they care. Otherwise, mothers using breakfast clubs - can’t be bothered to boil an egg. People using food banks - should buy food before getting their nails done. People in poverty - should budget better and batch-cooking should be taught in schools. Etc.

Where was the collective outrage when disabled people were subject to tighter regulations when claiming PIP? When the 2-child benefit cap was introduced? When child benefit was means-tested?

growstuff

Dickens

MissAdventure

It has never been wholesale, across the board condemnation of people on benefits.
There have always been people who will point out how some advice is outdated, not doable, or factually wrong.

I still have rarely seen this level of concern, regardless.

I still have rarely seen this level of concern, regardless.

Perhaps because we can relate to the misery that some will endure when it's really, really cold - cold and dark when they might be afraid to turn up the heating, or even put it on for an hour over the meagre limit they've set themselves?

It's a long while back now, but I still remember trying to keep warm in front of a one-bar electric fire in a cold room, breathing in cold air whilst at the same time getting mottled legs from the heat from electric fire - because I was, at the time, pretty impoverished. But I was young and healthy.

£200 wouldn't have bought you much electricity over the whole winter. Maybe local authorities should be responsible for making sure that all the homes in their area are as well-insulated as they can be and all grants for solar panels and efficient boilers are applied for.

Those who are frugal with their spending might well find that £200 useful over a particularly cold spell which lasts maybe for a couple of weeks in winter, though.

Obviously it doesn't solve the problem of high energy bills nor badly insulated houses.

I love it when people use sarcasm to accuse people of lying. It shows what sort of people they are.
You don’t have to believe me to make it true LD. I know it was what I heard today, so your sly accusations make you look bad, and leave me unmoved.

I do understand the concern in as much as it could result in people’s power supply being turned off remotely if they get into arrears, which is Big Brotheresque, (is that a word, probably not) - but as it’s been a possibility for a while I won’t be losing any sleep at the moment.

Thanks Casdon. Nothing to be concerned about then🤷‍♀️

MollyGo if my fridge freezer gets mysteriously turned off, I promise It’ll let you know!

Those last comments from you and MissAdventure seem to imply that anyone concerned about this WFA measure has an ulterior motive and the concern wasn't genuine.

That was never my intention, Rosie. I don't think that at all. I think the problem is that a more general conversation is littered with unpleasant comments, and I've probably replied to more general points with a comment inspired by an unpleasant one. I hope that makes sense, and that you accept that I am in no way suggesting that you, and others like you are anything other than genuine.

I agree with MissA, however, that the general tone on here has until now been that those on benefits are poor managers at best, and shiftless scroungers at worst - they should be able to feed their children without resort to food banks or breakfast clubs, they spend money on TVs, phones and gel nails that should be spent on food - that sort of thing. Those of us who have pointed out that this is far from the whole picture have been accused of being loony lefties, communists and so on. Now that the people saying those things have lost their WFA, however, they are suddenly furious about older people not getting universal benefits - something that just didn't happen before.

I don't want to start naming names and scouring old threads for evidence of this, but it is very much a feeling that I have. We've gone from 'how can we avoid IHT if Labour get in?' to 'I am very concerned about people going without their £200' almost overnight, coinciding with a Labour victory. This, coupled with all the slogans and name-calling (again, not by everyone) is making the place very unpleasant, which is emphatically not a euphemism for 'people are criticising Labour'.

It’s old news
watt-logic.com/2020/09/30/smart-meters-2/
There’s a 2020 thread on Mumsnet too.

Ok I’ll do that. Can I just confirm (I’m sure you can remember this bit) … it was Radio 4 this morning?

You’ll need to look it up.
I’m busy living a life, like you were earlier.

So MollyGo you’re saying that a programme on Radio 4 presented information about Smart meters turning off domestic appliances in the future, and it was so shocking to you that you couldn’t believe what you were hearing.

Wow! I think we all need to hear about this! What programme was it please?

Rosie51

^That is separate from how I feel about the reactions on here though. I can't help wondering at the dissonance between wanting a fuel benefit to be paid to all pensioners and wanting to see benefit claimants denied the right to use food banks if they've dared to have their nails done. My objection to means-testing is at least consistent.^

Are there many who think the fuel benefit should be paid to all pensioners without any clawback through taxation? My objection is that the notice given really isn't sufficient for the hardest pressed to rejig their budgets. As with all means testing the cliff edge in this case will result in some extra hardship for those just above PC level. I have never joined in the "iphone, nails, big TV" comments mostly because I think they're ill informed at best and just plain nasty at worst. People's circumstances can change in a heartbeat, and outsiders are unlikely to know the details. Those last comments from you and MissAdventure seem to imply that anyone concerned about this WFA measure has an ulterior motive and the concern wasn't genuine.

I agree with you about the notice period. I have always had to budget in advance very carefully. In my case, I build up a surplus on my fuel account during the summer, so pay the same over the winter months. I've never "needed" the money to pay my fuel bills, despite being just £13pw over the limit for Pension Credit. However, the timing of the allowance has meant that my Christmases have been a bit easier. For me, what the withdrawal of the allowance has meant is that I've had to juggle finances around a bit. I still want to buy Christmas presents, so it will be my choice to put some other things on hold. A bit more notice would have helped.

PS. I won't freeze!

Dickens

MissAdventure

It has never been wholesale, across the board condemnation of people on benefits.
There have always been people who will point out how some advice is outdated, not doable, or factually wrong.

I still have rarely seen this level of concern, regardless.

I still have rarely seen this level of concern, regardless.

Perhaps because we can relate to the misery that some will endure when it's really, really cold - cold and dark when they might be afraid to turn up the heating, or even put it on for an hour over the meagre limit they've set themselves?

It's a long while back now, but I still remember trying to keep warm in front of a one-bar electric fire in a cold room, breathing in cold air whilst at the same time getting mottled legs from the heat from electric fire - because I was, at the time, pretty impoverished. But I was young and healthy.

£200 wouldn't have bought you much electricity over the whole winter. Maybe local authorities should be responsible for making sure that all the homes in their area are as well-insulated as they can be and all grants for solar panels and efficient boilers are applied for.

MissAdventure

It has never been wholesale, across the board condemnation of people on benefits.
There have always been people who will point out how some advice is outdated, not doable, or factually wrong.

I still have rarely seen this level of concern, regardless.

I still have rarely seen this level of concern, regardless.

Perhaps because we can relate to the misery that some will endure when it's really, really cold - cold and dark when they might be afraid to turn up the heating, or even put it on for an hour over the meagre limit they've set themselves?

It's a long while back now, but I still remember trying to keep warm in front of a one-bar electric fire in a cold room, breathing in cold air whilst at the same time getting mottled legs from the heat from electric fire - because I was, at the time, pretty impoverished. But I was young and healthy.

It has never been wholesale, across the board condemnation of people on benefits.
There have always been people who will point out how some advice is outdated, not doable, or factually wrong.

I still have rarely seen this level of concern, regardless.

That is separate from how I feel about the reactions on here though. I can't help wondering at the dissonance between wanting a fuel benefit to be paid to all pensioners and wanting to see benefit claimants denied the right to use food banks if they've dared to have their nails done. My objection to means-testing is at least consistent.

Are there many who think the fuel benefit should be paid to all pensioners without any clawback through taxation? My objection is that the notice given really isn't sufficient for the hardest pressed to rejig their budgets. As with all means testing the cliff edge in this case will result in some extra hardship for those just above PC level. I have never joined in the "iphone, nails, big TV" comments mostly because I think they're ill informed at best and just plain nasty at worst. People's circumstances can change in a heartbeat, and outsiders are unlikely to know the details. Those last comments from you and MissAdventure seem to imply that anyone concerned about this WFA measure has an ulterior motive and the concern wasn't genuine.

Witzend

IMO it’s just one of those phrases they use, like ‘Let me be absolutely clear…’ 😩

Yes Witzend, that’s a popular one among MP’s.

Mollygo

You had to listen to radio 4 this morning. It was talking about future plans for electricity usage. I didn’t believe what I was hearing,
but one of the comments was something like
”I don’t think people are going to be happy about the fridge. We like to be in charge of that ourselves.”
Unfortunately, it’s not beyond the bounds if possibility. I was more interested in the two tier idea of those who can afford solar panels and heat pumps will also get cheaper electricity.

Genuine question - how could a smart meter control your fridge freezer?

Rosie51

Doodledog

MissAdventure

I've rarely seen this level of concern for other sections of society, when their entitlement to such an amount changes.

Quite the opposite, in fact.
It usually heads straight into lectures about being good money managers, batch cooking, driving to food banks, patting their bellies and being pleased that they'll be given more money, along with downright insults.

Indeed. I wonder what could have brought about the sea change in compassion levels on here🤔

Well I'll remember not to be concerned about anybody but myself from now on, don't want to come under some nasty suspicion.
Doodledog I was under the impression you originally thought the withdrawal should have been delayed until next year to give people time to budget?

I do think that, yes. I think the PR surrounding all of this is terrible, and the policy is ill-advised.

That is separate from how I feel about the reactions on here though. I can't help wondering at the dissonance between wanting a fuel benefit to be paid to all pensioners and wanting to see benefit claimants denied the right to use food banks if they've dared to have their nails done. My objection to means-testing is at least consistent.

Pippa22

He understands nothing of ordinary peoples lives and the bad thing is that he doesn’t want to. He lives his privileged, comfortable life and is surrounded by people to make his life even easier,
Daily we are hearing of him accepting money and gifts to further enhance his life and thinks it’s perfectly acceptable.
Directors box at the football, acceptable as he can’t watch otherwise, the equivalent of £20,000 to have his boy in accommodation whilst studying, good parenting. Suits, glasses , two lots of Taylor Swift tickets plus maybe more we have yet to hear about.
Keir Starmer is totally out of touch and doesn’t even seem to have much idea how to run our country. How so many people can stick by him and excuse how he is behaving I have no idea but I am so worried about the country and the people living in it.

He went to Leeds Uni. My son went there and believe you learn a lot about life in those years. He didn’t go to a public school and helped look after his disabled mother. So what makes you think he led a privileged life. Everything he has achieved in life is down to hard work and talent. Can you explain to me what was privileged about his upbringing. Oh, and a lot of the legal work he did was for free to help people including work towards peace in Ireland. I await with interest your reply.

What are you worried might happen to us people?

He understands nothing of ordinary peoples lives and the bad thing is that he doesn’t want to. He lives his privileged, comfortable life and is surrounded by people to make his life even easier,
Daily we are hearing of him accepting money and gifts to further enhance his life and thinks it’s perfectly acceptable.
Directors box at the football, acceptable as he can’t watch otherwise, the equivalent of £20,000 to have his boy in accommodation whilst studying, good parenting. Suits, glasses , two lots of Taylor Swift tickets plus maybe more we have yet to hear about.
Keir Starmer is totally out of touch and doesn’t even seem to have much idea how to run our country. How so many people can stick by him and excuse how he is behaving I have no idea but I am so worried about the country and the people living in it.

Yes, the injustice. That's the thing.