Thousands stuck in Lebanon

MaizieD I was under the impression that only parts of Ukraine were targeted and that land near the Polish border wasn’t being reclaimed. But what do we know? I think Russia is unlikely to follow Iran’s approach- or at least I hope so. Sad times ahead.

ronib

MaizieD no really?
I was just trying to highlight the reality of living in a war zone.
What were you thinking?

I was thinking that you don't have to be anywhere near the actual fighting to be in danger because the enemy has long range missiles. The implication seemed to be that those living near the Polish border weren't in danger.

Apologies if I've misunderstood.

MaizieD no really?
I was just trying to highlight the reality of living in a war zone.
What were you thinking?

She said that the whole time she was there sirens were constantly going. This is nowhere near any fighting.

Have you heard of long range missiles? Of which Russia has a great many with no restrictions on their use...

I have just had a very pleasant chat with a refugee from Ukraine. She managed to visit her relatives in Ukraine recently who live near the Polish border. She said that the whole time she was there sirens were constantly going. This is nowhere near any fighting.
So could I just ask when there’s so much human suffering that more emphasis is not placed on finding peace? Whether in Ukraine or Israel?
There are very shameful theories doing the rounds.

Contemptible theories.🤬

He's a very sick in the head man, Oreo.

It’s just a very sick in the head conspiracy theory to think that
BN wanted this attack to take place.
Have some consideration please GNetters as it’s almost the anniversary of the barbaric acts by hamas on Israeli citizens.

I would hate to think that Netanyahu would have held back, even knowing the nature of the planned attack, but, yes, it seems entirely possible that he held back anticipating something less violent. He's not a nice man...

I mean the IDF was ready and plans in place.

Given that some thought, MaizieD. I find it hard to believe that if he had known the nature of some of the attacks in detail he would have allowed it to go ahead.

However, I can imagine the scenario where he did receive information but assumed it would be of a more conventional military nature and did not take preventative measures, because he wanted to take Hamas on in Gaza - they were well ready - and was waiting for provocation.

It was being reported by a variety of sources, including the BBC and the Financial Times, very soon after the attack last year. I've been hanging onto this page of search results for months now:

duckduckgo.com/?q=Israeli+spotters+reported+Hamas+action+before+7th+october&t=chromentp&ia=web

The kindest speculation about Israel's failure to act on these reports ascribes it to sexism, most of the 'spotters' reporting it were female.

The most horrific suggestion, which I can't altogether dismiss, is that Netanyahu, knowing that he was in danger of losing power and even ending up in jail, deliberately ignored them.

MaizieD

^Israeli intelligence must have been very strong to contemplate bombing an embassy^

I still find it strange that Israeli intelligence was strong enough to pinpoint the occupants of an embassy, and to carry out the exploding pagers operation, but didn't appear to take notice of reports of unusual activity on the Gaza/Israel border prior to the Hamas atrocities of October last year.

I was going to write about that. There were details about the attack published yesterday. It seems the guards/watchers were very badly let down. It's so very sad because if they'd had better support when they reported strange activity, the whole situation could have been stopped in its tracks. Surely border security should have been the top priority before messing about with high tech gizmos.

@maddy four you make a point here. And is my mistake I meant to say Israel has broken more international laws than any other recognised democracy.
But if we are talking rogue state, is this who we are now comparing Israel to?

It's incredibly complex because of the history of international involvement in the Middle East.

I cant work out how much support is being given to Israel because of its own interests, or whether it's acting as a proxy for current Western strategy in the area. (past strategy, if we recall, was to arm Iran, among other interventions)

In the recent past the US (and the UK as regards Iraq) have gone for the invasion/feet on the ground approach but not any more.

On another note - yes I am afraid Lebanon will become another Gaza.

eggplant

*But then Israel has contravened more international laws than any other country, not just now but for decades*

Must be about money then.

Are you for real?
Afghanistan and Iran come to mind. Do you think Russia and China and North Korea obey international laws? Not to mention many countries in Africa, South America, the list goes on.

But then Israel has contravened more international laws than any other country, not just now but for decades

Must be about money then.

I simply believe that what Israel has done in retaliation for Oct 7th and the hostage situation is disproportionate and now just plain wicked. They are the biggest military might in the region and despite playing the victim has many Arab countries around them who whilst not being friends are allies who have - in the case of Jordan - helped defend the country from missiles. Egypt, Qatar, and Saudi are all in the pocket of the US and so support Israel. That just leaves a bunch of bloodthirsty terrorists who are not an army, do not have any military might, and should have been dealt with as terrorists rather than a similar army of a sovereign state.
Totally over the top and destructive, indeed Israel now won’t stop until it has razed Lebanon to the ground. The locals now even have a phrase for it ‘they are going to Gaza it.’
And despite having high tech weaponry to target terrorists or Iranian Republican military personnel abroad which they have been using for years they are completely flattening these places with extreme brute force. This is a scorched earth policy which again contravenes international laws.
But then Israel has contravened more international laws than any other country, not just now but for decades.

Wyllow3

Iran is a divided society, I was shocked above by the labelling "baying crowds" when I recalled the brave attempts of young women - and men - on the streets against the government.
Its still going on: march 2024

"In March 2024, the mission reported that 551 protesters had been killed by security forces (including the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps) during the protests. This was the highest number killed in any protest in Iran since the establishment of the Islamic Republic in 1979"

This is from a H o C September 2024 report on internal events in Iran.
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/two-year-anniversary-of-the-mahsa-amini-protests-in-iran/#:~:text=Iranian%20government%20response%20to%20the%20protests&text=In%20March%202024%2C%20the%20mission,the%20Islamic%20Republic%20in%201979.

And this is why the threat to an Israel from Iran is not what many suppose it is, because apart from being wrecked economically by sanctions the people presently opposed to the regime would probably rise up to demand regime change if the country goes to war knowing that western allies would be sending their forces to fight with Israel against Iran and so possibly help them make this come about.

MaizieD

^Israeli intelligence must have been very strong to contemplate bombing an embassy^

I still find it strange that Israeli intelligence was strong enough to pinpoint the occupants of an embassy, and to carry out the exploding pagers operation, but didn't appear to take notice of reports of unusual activity on the Gaza/Israel border prior to the Hamas atrocities of October last year.

Its unbelievable. Quite literally. One of the most highly militarised countries on earth and they were all having a little nap?

Israeli intelligence must have been very strong to contemplate bombing an embassy

I still find it strange that Israeli intelligence was strong enough to pinpoint the occupants of an embassy, and to carry out the exploding pagers operation, but didn't appear to take notice of reports of unusual activity on the Gaza/Israel border prior to the Hamas atrocities of October last year.

Iran is a divided society, I was shocked above by the labelling "baying crowds" when I recalled the brave attempts of young women - and men - on the streets against the government.
Its still going on: march 2024

"In March 2024, the mission reported that 551 protesters had been killed by security forces (including the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps) during the protests. This was the highest number killed in any protest in Iran since the establishment of the Islamic Republic in 1979"

This is from a H o C September 2024 report on internal events in Iran.
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/two-year-anniversary-of-the-mahsa-amini-protests-in-iran/#:~:text=Iranian%20government%20response%20to%20the%20protests&text=In%20March%202024%2C%20the%20mission,the%20Islamic%20Republic%20in%201979.

GrannyGravy13

I assume all who are in favour of Israel not attacking Hezbolla are content with Hezbollah to continue launching missiles in Israel on a daily basis?

Iran backs and arms Hezbollah!

Some of us simply pray for peace!

Personally I don’t wish to see any more needless deaths of ANY civilians.

I utterly condemn Hamas, what they did was unforgivable, however Netunyahu
has crossed the line, I hold HIM responsible, not Israeli citizens.

To be honest, if I was terrified and hungry, I'd do what I was told.

eggplant

*However the baying crowds in Iran that I see on news programmes are clearly a very different type*

We don't know do we? We are the victims of propaganda. Scenes of women handing out sweets and celebrating ,for example are often done under duress. People are threatened or paid to behave in a ceratin way.

None of us ( with one or 2 exeptions) know do we?

Just like we don't know about refugees ripping up documents. Its all hearsay and mind games.

Baying crowds in Iran are bussed in from villages for the day and given lunch, dinner etc. the ordinary population stay away.