Anniversary of Israeli massacre

We all have opinions on this and emotions run high but it helps to consider the facts. The IDF have successfully eliminated the head honchos of both Hamas and Hezbollah, neither group are completely wiped out but are demoralised and greatly reduced therefore now is the time for Netanyahu to declare victory and agree to engage in a ceasefire to negotiate the release of the hostages and decide upon a way forward for both Israelis and Palestinians with spokespeople for those in Gaza, with mediation offered in Egypt or Qatar. Hamas cannot lay their arms down and release the hostages without a ceasefire in place or the IDF will certainly kill their own people due to heavy pounding of Gaza night and day.
The death toll of civilians in Gaza and Lebanon is horrendous, the fact they are now homeless, starving, and dying from preventable diseases has been declared a humanitarian disaster for some time. Hamas we can blame but Israel is also to blame for flouting numerous international laws including ensuring the safe passage of civilians and making sure they have access to aid, food, water, and medical care. Also there have been war crimes committed against Gazans which cannot be blamed on Hamas or Hezbollah, to assume that everything was down to them is to vastly over estimate their activities and grossly under estimate the capability of a first world
army with star of the art weaponry.
Right now regardless of opinions we have to realise what most western governments now realise including many in the Israeli government and that is that a ceasefire is now due.

Wyllow how can it be possible to differentiate between Hamas and their supporters and those you claim do not support Hamas ?

Wyllow3 from the very beginning of this war I have been sympathetic to the plight of the innocent civilians in Gaza.

In my opinion Hamas are cowards hiding below in their tunnels and amongst the population knowing full well the death toll would be high.

They knew the consequences of their actions on 7/10 but went ahead regardless.

From above GG13, "There needs to be an agreed end game preferably a two state solution without any Hamas related people in any position of power."

Absolutely.

We do get reports from other sources, GG13. The people of Gaza might be under the control of Hamas (although there are reports of it breaking down in some areas).
My reservations are when people label all the people in Gaza as Hamas terrorists. It can prevent us seeing that there are innocents suffering across boundaries.
It can write off those suffering as "lesser".

foxie48 the last election being in 2006 when Hamas was elected.

All bulletins from inside Gaza come from the Hamas run Health Ministry

Hamas controlled the day to day operations inside Gaza for the last 18 years.

This is what I meant in my post Hamas is Palestine I should have been more precise and posted Hamas is Gaza

GrannyGravy13

Exactly David49 Hamas is currently Palestine

I think you should write to parliament to ask them to amend their House of Commons records as they refer to it as the Israel-Hamas Conflict. I absolutely condemn Hamas and in everything that I have posted I have never at any time said anything in support of Hamas. However, that does not preclude me from being very clear that I think that the Israeli government has been guilty of war crimes regarding it's treatment of Palestinians who are not members of Hamas. It seems many governments and the UN also take this view. There is also well documented evidence that the Israeli government was given warnings prior to 07/10 that there was an imminent attack by Hamas. These warnings were ignored perhaps because of incompetence, a belief that the Iron Dome would keep Israel safe or for some, yet to be confirmed, reason. These are not conspiracy stories, they are being discussed in Israeli media and have been confirmed.

"Hours before Hamas launched its invasion and brutal massacre in southern Israel on October 7, 2023, the Shin Bet security agency sent out an urgent warning to several top security bodies, including the Israel Police and the National Security Council, Hebrew media outlets reported Sunday."

The above was taken from the Times of Israel, it was also reported in Haaretz and other media. However despite this and the numerous reports from "spotters" posted near the Kibbutz that were attacked on 07/10 it still took nearly 8 hours for help to arrive, despite main HQ of IDF in Tel Aviv being well under 2 hours away and the soldiers delegated to protect South Israel were 41 minutes away at Be'er Sheva.
The attack by Hamas was absolutely vile but they had all the time they needed to kill, burn, and take hostages. The question is why?

I'm doubtful we will rid the world of terrorists. They are here in the UK. MI5 are concerned about a serious terror attack here (BBC news) Some terrorists have been released as they have served their sentences and the head of MI5 says they will go straight back to planning attacks. The new threat is from the Yemen and Somalia in the UK and I guess elsewhere.
Terrorists are everywhere and Israel won't be rid of them even if this conflict ends.

How can anyone defend Hamas ? Denial is frightening

Wyllow3 I think the majority worldwide want peace.

I am doubtful of Irans intention and that of the remaining Head Honchos of Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis.

Netanyahu was damned if he didn’t respond with extreme force and has been damned because he did.

There needs to be an agreed end game preferably a two state solution without any Hamas related people in any position of power.

Palestine might not have been as free as they wished previously but there were a number of Palestinian people, women in particular, who were on the news saying that before all this, their lives were wonderful.

As outside reporters were not allowed in, was that true or was it Hamas propaganda?

You know that no babies were beheaded as truth valdavi?
Actually, we don’t know. We don’t know it was Israeli propaganda either.
When shown footage of the Israeli massacre, journalists wept. It was judged too horrific to show to the world.

Still, I guess it’s okay to burn the babies alive, shoot them in their mother’s arms, tie them together with their families and burn and shoot them, to hit them against walls.

Well obviously I don’t think it’s okay.

Nor do I think it okay that Hamas are inflicting terror, death, and starvation on the Palestinian children when they should hand over the hostages and stop the fighting and end all this.

My interest is in pointing out that there are people in both countries who want peace negotiations soon and not more war.

(a couple of pages back it was pointed out that the Palestinian people have not had an election since 2006 and were not voting at that point for what Hamas is doing now. We do innocent civilians in Palestine a great disservice if we label them as all "Hamas").

Its hard indeed to find a way forward - I'd like to see what Lixy wrote on the last page

"A free, thriving Palestinian state alongside a free, thriving Israel would be the most wonderful outcome. Keep the light shining.🕊️"

valdavi

But the beheaded babies rumour was Israeli propaganda, if it's been shown not to be true. I don't think the babies were all fine & I condemn october 13th.

You don’t think the babies were all fine?!🤬
It was October the 7th 2023 at least get the date right.

If hamas hadn’t invaded Israel and cowardly murdered families in beds, babies and children, and shot stabbed and mutilated and raped unarmed teenagers and young people at a music festival, then took hundreds of hostages, then Gaza would still have been standing with no Palestinian casualties whatsoever. Think about that Grany, it’s impossible for you to refute.

But the beheaded babies rumour was Israeli propaganda, if it's been shown not to be true. I don't think the babies were all fine & I condemn october 13th.

Starmer is complicit in the Genoside and ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Lebanon etc etc

I’m not Starmer’s number one fan, but really?
Starmer has done nothing wrong. I would argue that he shouldn’t have made the decision to deny Israel certain components they need, but others would disagree. Whatever, Starmer is guilty of nothing with regard to this situation. It was caused, quite deliberately, by Hamas. This is what they wanted. This is what they’ve got. Despite the killing of their brutal leader recently, they have proclaimed their defiance and their determination to continue to expose their people to war, injury, death, and destruction. Hamas caused all this. The rest of us watch and weep at their cruelty.

They were shot, stabbed and dashed against walls but I expect Grany thinks the babies were all fine.
Spreading lies and propaganda for hamas is beyond despicable.

The film about 7th October found there were no beheaded babies

Well that’s alright then!

Conspiracy theories abound in this war.

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Grany

I did not deny that October 7th did not happen It was a terror attack it plainly happened by Hamas. But also have you heard about the Hannibal Directive use by Israel? Look it up.

I suggest you have another look at it.

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Illustrates the mindset of many who March in London every weekend. I’ve had my eyes opened anyway.

Grany in your own words

there may have been some rapes carry on denying.

No one is denying loss of life on all sides or atrocities apart from you, your posts are becoming anti-Semitic and upsetting to those of us with Jewish friends and family, let alone who may be Jewish themselves.

How on earth do you sleep at night, utterly, utterly disgusting!