Almost 1,000 migrants crossed the Channel yesterday.

petra

Donald Tusk ( he of the EU commission) has stated that he will not accept any EU ruling on immigration when it threatens his country’s security. How times have changed.

www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/10/12/polish-pm-says-he-wont-respect-eu-right-to-asylum-if-it-threatens-his-countrys-security

Absolutely this
With the threat of Isis and Al Qaeda rearing their ugly heads again, we need to be much more careful who we let into this country but it looks like we don’t have that choice. They just come and come and come.
I feel many will be genuine refugees, but many will not and will be here to do this country harm..

I actually would quite like a referendum on this issue, but as I stated before, we won’t be having one because it’s not the way things work in the UK. We have had referendums very rarely in this country, and as I said, the EU referendum has caused massive divisions in the country, sometimes even in families and still going on now. Very sad.
There won’t be a referendum any time soon. Although Blair was for identity cards, I’m not aware that our current government want them, nor did our last government, and so I expect it’s pointless discussing it, because it ain’t gonna happen!

I would have thought a campaign to explain the advantages, followed by polling of all age groups including over-16s would be a start.

I agree with you, 25Avalon. A lot of people on here seem to be living in the past. We live in a totally different world to the one we grew up in. There are many amongst us who would see our way of life destroyed. I too fear for my grandchildren.

Mollygo

maddyfour

We don’t put everything to a referendum, and look how it turned out after the EU referendum.

What The Brexit referendum showed Was the people won’t accept the outcome, Even it’s a difference between yes and no, is over 1 million

People not accepting the outcome is not a rationale not to do something though. What a referendum does is use the power of the public vote to demonstrate to those who disagree that they are in the minority - witness all the kicking and screaming about Brexit, people don’t like it, but they accept it has happened.
I’m interested to hear how people who don’t think a referendum is the way forward propose it should happen?

There will undoubtedly be a huge lobby against the introduction of id cards, led by prominent ex politicians including Johnson and Farage who have both vociferously opposed them. If Labour were to attempt to introduce them now there would be such opposition that it could finish off the government, that’s why I wondered why you thought a referendum wasn’t a good idea maddyfour. I know there isn’t one frequently, it just seems to me that this is one of those very polarising areas where it would be the right thing to do.

maddyfour

We don’t put everything to a referendum, and look how it turned out after the EU referendum.

What The Brexit referendum showed Was the people won’t accept the outcome, Even it’s a difference between yes and no, is over 1 million

I don’t have an objection to a referendum on this issue Casdon. I was just stating a fact, we don’t put everything to a referendum, because we don’t!
What on earth makes you say that I think it’s one way of getting Labour out of power? That’s a ridiculous thing to say, I can’t even imagine how you think that could even happen.

What exactly is your objection to a referendum on this issue maddyone? That is surely the only way of ensuring that the decision is made by the public, rather than being imposed by any government on a population who for all we know may disagree with it. It’s a cross party issue. Rather than expecting a Labour government to make a fundamental decision as the Tories haven’t done it, thereby alienating themselves from a significant proportion of the population, why not put the idea to the public - unless you just think that’s one of the ways of getting Labour out of power.

We don’t put everything to a referendum, and look how it turned out after the EU referendum. We elect a government to make choices/decisions for us. This wasn’t on the manifesto of any party as far as I am aware, so it seems highly unlikely that identity cards will be introduced, although stranger things have happened, because removing the WFA was not on Labour’s manifesto, but was rapidly introduced. That doesn’t change my mind though, nor Blair’s either, since he brought it up again recently. On this, he’s right.

Calendargirl

^Britain is not the only European country to take in refugees, and we have not accepted the most^

But size wise, we are quite small compared to France, say.

Where are they all supposed to be housed, for a start?

Yes, true, France is 2.3 times the size of the UK and has over twice the number of refugees compared to UK.
Germany is only 1.5 the size of the UK, yet has 10 times the number of refugees.
Affordable housing could be built on Brown belt or Green belt areas, to house both our own homeless and refugees.
The amount of land taken up by homes and gardens across the UK is a little over 5%.

It would be a good thing to put to a public referendum because views are so polarised.

Mollygo

Mamie
I just find it bizarre that people are worried about illegal immigration but can't see the logic of a single, simple system for proving their identity, which works for the whole adult population in many areas of everyday life.

Yes. It makes sense.
But in the UK there are so many more reasons for not wanting them . . .

Do you think there is an age demographic to that Mollygo? I don't hear reasons against from younger members of my family. My adult grandchildren would be very happy to have one means of identification. It seems to me that the case needs to be made properly, explaining the advantages. The introduction of compulsory identification for voting would have been a good moment!

Mamie
I just find it bizarre that people are worried about illegal immigration but can't see the logic of a single, simple system for proving their identity, which works for the whole adult population in many areas of everyday life.

Yes. It makes sense.
But in the UK there are so many more reasons for not wanting them . . .

I guess part of it is about the way things have always been and fear of the new. Identity cards have been in France long before the EU and here people are given them at 16 and renew them locally every fifteen years. Many French people do not bother to have passports because they only travel within the EU. It really isn't a big deal and as I think I said before, my adult students thought school uniform was more of a threat to human rights than identity cards!
I just find it bizarre that people are worried about illegal immigration but can't see the logic of a single, simple system for proving their identity, which works for the whole adult population in many areas of everyday life.

Casdon

Tony Blair tried last year to get the id card issue back on the political agenda. The ex-Tory chairman Sir Jake Berry branded digital IDs 'a creepy state plan to track you from the cradle to the grave'. Johnson, Sunak et al were all vehement opponents, as is Farage. I suspect Starmer would introduce them if he thought the public had the stomach for it - I’m not sure they do.

There’s no chance of getting ID cards if those in power won’t do it, either because they themselves are against it or because they’re afraid of the public reaction.

Tony Blair tried last year to get the id card issue back on the political agenda. The ex-Tory chairman Sir Jake Berry branded digital IDs 'a creepy state plan to track you from the cradle to the grave'. Johnson, Sunak et al were all vehement opponents, as is Farage. I suspect Starmer would introduce them if he thought the public had the stomach for it - I’m not sure they do.

Whats has Blair the then L Party have to do with it?

Objections to ID cards come from across the political spectrum. After all, 14 years under the Conservatives failed to bring them in.

People have politically different reasons for liking or not liking them.

I agree Mollygo.
We should have identity cards. They should show our photo and our fingerprints. Blair wanted us all to have identity cards but the rest of the Labour Party objected. Blair was right.

Mamie
I’d like us to have ID cards,
We have to provide proof of identity for so many things-whether it’s by showing something or answering multiple questions for so many things today.
However, there are multiple reasons given for why not, the fraudulent reproduction of cards being one.
Others I’ve heard mentioned are
We don’t have to copy the EU
It’s an infringement of my civil liberty
I don’t want all my details kept in some computer, in view of how they can be hacked / how they can crash
I’ve managed all my life without one and I don’t need one now.
How would they set them up?
Will it show my preferred gender?
The latest one was that the cost of providing them would make the black hole even bigger.
It’ll be a brave government who puts ID cards into effect in the UK.

Quite so Calandergirl. Why do we need all this housing? People are "escaping to the country" as our cities become overpopulated with the increase in immigration as the Office of National Statistic figures reveal. Then when we deport people for crimes they sneak back in and claim their human rights enďorsed by the ECHR. Ul

Britain is not the only European country to take in refugees, and we have not accepted the most

But size wise, we are quite small compared to France, say.

Where are they all supposed to be housed, for a start?

BevSec

Eggplant, gosh you are on the attack! We all know about the suppression of women under a regime like the Taliban. We all know that this country is not like that yet and I have made it very clear in previous posts that I worry about what the future holds for my granddaughters. You, I know, do not share that concern, regardless of how much illegal immigration is happening. From what I have read the actual numbers are being kept from us and downplayed from what they actually are. Many people I have spoken to share my concerns.

Maybe people want to escape regimes such as those run by the Taliban.

Mollygo

Granmarderby10
The last time this idea was mooted it was soundly objected to and “they” didn’t exactly go out of their way to sell it to us did they. Then it was dropped like a hot potato. Why I wonder 🤔

Possibly because they realised that like passports, credit cards etc. they would immediately be fraudulently copied.

Even if they include fingerprints and facial identification? (Which our French residency cards do, in line with the ID cards for French nationals).
We have been asked for our cards (so that our passports are not stamped) when entering or leaving the country, registering for hospital treatment, when making a significant financial transaction such as buying a house or signing a lease agreement for a car, and for voting (before we lost our votes through Brexit). We show our health cards for all medical treatment. Registering children for schools would also need the ID card as would the lease on any kind of property or registering for employment or benefits.
I am very grateful to have an official residency card; it proves my right to live here.

Yes - I was thinking of all the fake IDs kids have to ‘prove’ they are 18 when they want to get a drink or enter licensed premises. They are just kids, novices but they manage it. Still it would be handy for those who don’t have passports or a driver’s license .