Pensions ,Prescriptions & Racheal Reeve’s

Reeves is not targeting pensioners she is targeting those that don’t need handouts, many of those are over pension age many/most don’t need handouts

NI contributions have fallen way behind cost it needs to change either reduce service or increase tax a lot

The stated policy is for Tax receipts to cover day to day spending including interest payments of £90bn

I hope they achieve that aim

MaizieD

^In 1980 our small house cost £40,000 and at the time our income was ⅕th of that; the interest rate was 14% so that needs to be part of the equation too.^

You did very well from your mortgage company, then, because at that time it was more usual for the maximum mortgage to be offered to be 3x salary. No wonder you struggled to pay it...

I bought my first house in 1973, the mortgage was 3 x main salary plus 1 year salary for the other partner or 2.5 times joint salaries. I suppose it varied.

David49 you obviously live in a different part of the UK than I do,most pensioners here are on low incomes.We are in an area of deprivation after all the big ,wel paying businesses closed decades ago.Theres really only hospitality based jobs and supermarkets.The town centres have charity shops bookies and pubs that are only open two days a week Millionaires are fewer than hens teeth .My friend of 55 years has just over the limit for PC so has to survive on a pittance she is a two time an er survives and has early onset dementia,there are many many more just like her here.Across the country I would suggest there are more than you can imagine .Taking away what is a paltry sum in the scheme of things is unecessary and cruel.There is already snow on the high hills around us the winter will only get colder .Why aren’t they chasing the BILLIONS handed out to the likes of Mone and Dido Harding? Or has that been split between the cabinet and paid onto offshore accounts?

GrannyGravy13

There has been a trend for many, many years to leak proposed budget changes/cuts to get the measure of public response.

Unfortunately the current cohort appear to be exceptionally inept at ^reading the room^

In fact, just like the last cohort!

paddyann54

David49 you obviously live in a different part of the UK than I do,most pensioners here are on low incomes.We are in an area of deprivation after all the big ,wel paying businesses closed decades ago.Theres really only hospitality based jobs and supermarkets.The town centres have charity shops bookies and pubs that are only open two days a week Millionaires are fewer than hens teeth .My friend of 55 years has just over the limit for PC so has to survive on a pittance she is a two time an er survives and has early onset dementia,there are many many more just like her here.Across the country I would suggest there are more than you can imagine .Taking away what is a paltry sum in the scheme of things is unecessary and cruel.There is already snow on the high hills around us the winter will only get colder .Why aren’t they chasing the BILLIONS handed out to the likes of Mone and Dido Harding? Or has that been split between the cabinet and paid onto offshore accounts?

👏👏👏👏

paddyann54

David49 you obviously live in a different part of the UK than I do,most pensioners here are on low incomes.We are in an area of deprivation after all the big ,wel paying businesses closed decades ago.Theres really only hospitality based jobs and supermarkets.The town centres have charity shops bookies and pubs that are only open two days a week Millionaires are fewer than hens teeth .My friend of 55 years has just over the limit for PC so has to survive on a pittance she is a two time an er survives and has early onset dementia,there are many many more just like her here.Across the country I would suggest there are more than you can imagine .Taking away what is a paltry sum in the scheme of things is unecessary and cruel.There is already snow on the high hills around us the winter will only get colder .Why aren’t they chasing the BILLIONS handed out to the likes of Mone and Dido Harding? Or has that been split between the cabinet and paid onto offshore accounts?

I agree with you, paddyann that people like your friend should get WFA - without a doubt the threshold for getting PC should be higher (as should the threshold for paying tax).

But there are many pensioners who won't struggle as a result of not getting the payment, and it's maddening to hear them talk one minute about their holiday in Monte Carlo and their new kitchen, and the next about how awful it is that the government has 'stolen' their two hundred quid. A few days after the announcement I was with two people who did just that, whilst we were in a nice restaurant having just spent £40 each on lunch.

So she should have just taxed the wfa, not stopped it altogether and thrown away all that political capital.

Ilovecheese

So she should have just taxed the wfa, not stopped it altogether and thrown away all that political capital.

The wealthiest pensioners would still get money they don’t need if WFA was taxed, so no. Raising the personal tax allowance and increasing eligibility to pension credit would benefit those who need help the most.

Agreed, Casdon. I would raise the personal tax allowance to £20k and the eligibility for PC to £15k.

Doodledog

Agreed, Casdon. I would raise the personal tax allowance to £20k and the eligibility for PC to £15k.

Do you mean raise the tax personal allowance to £20 thousand foe everybody. This would mean a huge tax revenue loss to the Treasury, although it is desirable it isn’t sustainable. Raising the eligibility for pension credit to £15 thousand is more realistic.

What is the GN definition of wealthy please?

What income would a pensioner have to be receiving to be thought of by posters as a wealthy pensioner?

Apparently, younger people with an income of up to £100,000 are struggling and deserve help with childcare costs so what are the criteria?

I thought the term wealthy applied to those with income and assets in the millions or billions.

Jane43

Doodledog

Agreed, Casdon. I would raise the personal tax allowance to £20k and the eligibility for PC to £15k.

Do you mean raise the tax personal allowance to £20 thousand foe everybody. This would mean a huge tax revenue loss to the Treasury, although it is desirable it isn’t sustainable. Raising the eligibility for pension credit to £15 thousand is more realistic.

But if the tax allowance didn't increase people on PC would pay tax. What's the point of that?

8Allira* I think one of my friends is quite comfortably off. She has a nice detached house, with the mortgage paid off long ago. She inherited her mother's house, which she rents out, has a good occupational pension and also a nice parcel of shares in the company she used to work for.
I have another friend with a very nice house in Surbiton, purchased in 1970, so again mortgage paid off. He had a large extension added to the house a couple of years ago so I don't think he's short of cash. I don't know if these two would count as wealthy, but they are certainly quite comfortable!

Allira

What is the GN definition of wealthy please?

What income would a pensioner have to be receiving to be thought of by posters as a wealthy pensioner?

Apparently, younger people with an income of up to £100,000 are struggling and deserve help with childcare costs so what are the criteria?

I thought the term wealthy applied to those with income and assets in the millions or billions.

Here’s one definition.
news.sky.com/story/money-blog-how-much-you-need-per-month-for-the-happiest-retirement-13040934

Allira

What is the GN definition of wealthy please?

What income would a pensioner have to be receiving to be thought of by posters as a wealthy pensioner?

Apparently, younger people with an income of up to £100,000 are struggling and deserve help with childcare costs so what are the criteria?

I thought the term wealthy applied to those with income and assets in the millions or billions.

I thought the term wealthy applied to those with income and assets in the millions or billions.

That's what wealthy means to me.

Not a couple living in London with kids on £100k. They might be financially OK-ish, but childcare costs, mortgages, rents, hmm.

I don't have that kind of income - but I still don' t consider such families to be wealthy.

I guess it's subjective.

To me, the wealthy are those who are very very wealthy, who siphon money out of the economy into their offshore bank accounts, property, investments, etc - or who have inherited wealth - those who buy yachts / super yachts, even have their own jets, etc, have homes in various countries. That is what I consider to be real wealth.

In a graph of income distribution, there is a very long "tail" at the top end with only a few households earning over £100,000. The median disposable income for the top fifth after direct taxes was £68,400 in 2023. This compares with the median disposable income for all households of £34,500 and the median disposable income for the poorest fifth of households of £16,400.

"Wealthy" is a subjective, meaningless term but any household with an income over £68,400 (after taxes) is one of the fifth of wealthiest households in the UK.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyearending2023

I agree with the final paragraph of Dicken's post.
"Wealthy", in my opinion, applies to the super rich who for want of a better word, are loaded. Chase after them first.

DH turned 65 years last week and drew down a substantial sum from his pension in order to avoid any potential taxation. Probably around £40k could have been taken from us by the government. It took very little time to action, the pension company was certainly on the ball. Unfortunately the new car he ordered is taking much longer, 6 months, due to a shortage of semi conductor chips, whatever that means!

Well, if the rumours are true and this comes to pass, I’ll be interested to hear the reasons behind the decision.

If it’s to stop people from leaving themselves short in later life it makes sense to stop that (as we see on here, not everyone is financially savvy with things like pensions).

If it’s to make the tax breaks fairer, that is also fair enough - it’s those on low incomes who need tax breaks, not the better off, but I would like to see whatever happens (*if anything*) be phased in over a few years, as I think it would be wrong to scupper people’s plans on the eve of the retirement they may have planned for years.

We only have a couple of weeks left before we find out what’s happening, thank goodness.

escaped

I agree with the final paragraph of Dicken's post.
"Wealthy", in my opinion, applies to the super rich who for want of a better word, are loaded. Chase after them first.

DH turned 65 years last week and drew down a substantial sum from his pension in order to avoid any potential taxation. Probably around £40k could have been taken from us by the government. It took very little time to action, the pension company was certainly on the ball. Unfortunately the new car he ordered is taking much longer, 6 months, due to a shortage of semi conductor chips, whatever that means!

...due to a shortage of semi conductor chips, whatever that means!

In simple terms, supply can't keep up with demand - demand which is increasing because automation in the car industry, and electric vehicles, require more chips.

And the demand for work-from-home technology competing for semi-conductor capacity.

I think most of the chips are produced in south / south east Asia which was badly affected by the DELTA variant of COVID and, well, you can imagine the effect on the workforce, as chip packaging and testing is labour intensive.

mr Escaped will have to cool his heels! Las year, JP Morgan Research thought the problem was all but over - so, it could have been an even longer wait...

(I'm a mine of fairly useless and obscure information - my disabled OH sits long hours at his computer and keeps me up to date on all sorts of stuff that I have little interest in. I dread the "that's interesting, did you know that xyz..." from him )

Just more Tory press scaremongering. Next story: Labour to abolish teddy bears! All to be handed in to your local police station.

Dickens

Allira

What is the GN definition of wealthy please?

What income would a pensioner have to be receiving to be thought of by posters as a wealthy pensioner?

Apparently, younger people with an income of up to £100,000 are struggling and deserve help with childcare costs so what are the criteria?

I thought the term wealthy applied to those with income and assets in the millions or billions.

I thought the term wealthy applied to those with income and assets in the millions or billions.

That's what wealthy means to me.

Not a couple living in London with kids on £100k. They might be financially OK-ish, but childcare costs, mortgages, rents, hmm.

I don't have that kind of income - but I still don' t consider such families to be wealthy.

I guess it's subjective.

To me, the wealthy are those who are very very wealthy, who siphon money out of the economy into their offshore bank accounts, property, investments, etc - or who have inherited wealth - those who buy yachts / super yachts, even have their own jets, etc, have homes in various countries. That is what I consider to be real wealth.

That would be my definition too.

Comfortably off is not wealthy so would that be the term for those in the band between being eligible for Pension Credit (is that £11,364 pa and an income over £68,400 pa (after taxes), which is considered wealthy, apparently?

An income of £12,000 is not comfortably off yet a single person with that income has lost the WFA.

There is quite a difference between those two incomes, depending too, on other outgoings such as rent.

The UK government’s data for 2023 shows the average weekly income for pensioners to be £267. This works out at around £13,884 per year.

Allira Somebody with an income of only £12,000 and almost no savings, who pays rent, will be eligible for housing benefit.

As I wrote above, 'wealthy' is a subjective and fairly meaningless word. However, somebody with a post-tax income of £68,400 will be in the top fifth of earners and will have considerably broader financial shoulders than somebody in the bottom fifth.

PS. I didn't use the term 'wealthy' for any group.

There does seem to be a lot of Guardian quotes on here, not a newspaper I ever read, I think the articles are rather weird.

BevSec

There does seem to be a lot of Guardian quotes on here, not a newspaper I ever read, I think the articles are rather weird.

Where?