One Nation Conservatives

Oreo

Cumbrianmale56

I don't think Labour would have been elected if they kept Jeremy Corbyn and his Momentum friends in charge. They had to move to the centre or face their party falling apart. Similarly the Tories moving to the Right to try and appeal to Reform voters won't work: those who vote Reform will vote for the real thing and moderate Tories will either abstain or vote Lib Dem.

I don’t think we can say anything with certainty until after the next election, some way off at this point.😄

Except that this is what happened in the last election. In many constituencies voters chose to vote Lib Dem rather than Labour because while they wanted the Conservatives out, they were very unwilling to vote Labour in case it ended with a Corbynite left wing government, despite the change in leadership.

In many cases Lib Dems were already in second place

The first past the post system we have in this country meant that the Labour party won lots of seats, but the proportion of votes it got rose by only 1.5%. In the meanwhile the Conservative share of the vote fell by 20%.

What is most concerning is that the proportion of voters turning out to vote has now fallen to just under 60%. The constituencies with the lowest turnout (less than 50%) were almost entirely Labour constiuencies, while those with the highest turnout, 70% and higher were constituencies where the Lib Dems were defeating Conservatives.

Realky - “inside information leave would win” That made me laugh. How on earth could anyone know? I wish people would condemn politicians for what they have done or not done instead of making things up.

M0nica

MaizieD

eazybee

You should try reading some actual researched history, eazybee instead of the fantasy version taught in schools. For a start, factory inspectors barely existed and the acts disregarded with impunity.
How extremely rude of you, Maizie D, and also inaccurate.
Information sourced from a biography of Disraeli.

A biography of Disraeli isn't the most authoritative resource for the history of industrial legislation of the 19th century. It's a vast topic in its own right.

You cannot possibly know that Maizie unless you have details of which biography and who authored it. You would then need to research the academic antecedents of the author and also to study the documents referenced by the author. Only then could you make any kind of judgement of the validity of their comments on factory legislation.

If the author gave the impression that a factory act in 1833 made everything hunky dory for child workers in the 19th century, as claimed by eazybee, then I really don't need to undertake that process, MOnica.

MaizieD

eazybee

You should try reading some actual researched history, eazybee instead of the fantasy version taught in schools. For a start, factory inspectors barely existed and the acts disregarded with impunity.
How extremely rude of you, Maizie D, and also inaccurate.
Information sourced from a biography of Disraeli.

A biography of Disraeli isn't the most authoritative resource for the history of industrial legislation of the 19th century. It's a vast topic in its own right.

You cannot possibly know that Maizie unless you have details of which biography and who authored it. You would then need to research the academic antecedents of the author and also to study the documents referenced by the author. Only then could you make any kind of judgement of the validity of their comments on factory legislation.

eazybee

^You should try reading some actual researched history, eazybee instead of the fantasy version taught in schools. For a start, factory inspectors barely existed and the acts disregarded with impunity.^
How extremely rude of you, Maizie D, and also inaccurate.
Information sourced from a biography of Disraeli.

A biography of Disraeli isn't the most authoritative resource for the history of industrial legislation of the 19th century. It's a vast topic in its own right.

I see it as:

One nation "Declaration of values" (page. 1) are different from a manifesto for an election,

The first is long term where you'd like to go: the second, policy details for particular circumstances in theory within the values framework, including costings

Declaration of values: worthy and noble, and expressing universal desires. However it sounds expensive and uk has few means to pay for these blue sky thinking ideas. Unfortunately

Rudeness is not acceptable, and the reason my post was deleted. But if you openly and clearly state you support Farage and Reform, I think it is fair that it gets a reaction. So I wouldn't say 'no reason at all'.

I thanked FGT2 for being honest about it, but it is only fair that people react to this.

There’s a lot of rudeness about on this thread, mainly aimed for no reason at all at FriedGreenTomatoes2

Thank you for noticing Oreo.
I was beginning to think I was paranoid.

I think if Badenoch gets in, we'll see real problems in the opposition functioning well, torn in different directions rather dramatically. Jenrick is more likely to take it cautiously.

Cumbrianmale56

I don't think Labour would have been elected if they kept Jeremy Corbyn and his Momentum friends in charge. They had to move to the centre or face their party falling apart. Similarly the Tories moving to the Right to try and appeal to Reform voters won't work: those who vote Reform will vote for the real thing and moderate Tories will either abstain or vote Lib Dem.

I don’t think we can say anything with certainty until after the next election, some way off at this point.😄

eazybee

^You should try reading some actual researched history, eazybee instead of the fantasy version taught in schools. For a start, factory inspectors barely existed and the acts disregarded with impunity.^
How extremely rude of you, Maizie D, and also inaccurate.
Information sourced from a biography of Disraeli.

There’s a lot of rudeness about on this thread, mainly aimed for no reason at all at FriedGreenTomatoes2

Realky Reform are nothing like the Nazis so no reason to go OTT.

You should try reading some actual researched history, eazybee instead of the fantasy version taught in schools. For a start, factory inspectors barely existed and the acts disregarded with impunity.
How extremely rude of you, Maizie D, and also inaccurate.
Information sourced from a biography of Disraeli.

No!

That was Mr Callaghan. Thst is why Mrs Thatcher got elected because of the dreadful state the country was in.

It was the first time I'd seen a rat - in our new garden, peering at me. It was sleek and fat, feeding on the piles of rubbish dumped everywhere in the park across the road.

Winter of Discontent- oh I remember- that was Thatcher, no?

Despite never voting Conservative in my life (I turned 18 in 1979 so it was a no-brainer)

🤔 My father might have disagreed with you. He had never voted Tory in his life, always Labour, but after the disastrous premiership of James Callaghan he thought long and hard and voted Tory.

I think we'd all had enough of the Winter of Discontent, hauliers strike, hospitals blockaded, rubbish piling up in the streets, rats everywhere and even a gravediggers' strike - Crisis. What Crisis? said Callaghan. There was a vote of no confidence in Callaghan.

An idealistic 18 year old may see the world differently from a disillusioned working person with a family.

Whether events showed that was ultimately the right decision is open for debate.
At the time it was.

The Independent seem rather doom & gloom about the middle-term future of the Tories after these results (whichever they pick, same applies).Despite never voting Conservative in my life (I turned 18 in 1979 so it was a no-brainer) I don't really want this to be the case. Is it just my love of tradition? I'm sure the Liberals in 1918 didn't think that Labour could ever govern competently, and yet they've been as good as the other lot in the following century. But I dread it being a 2 party system with Reform & Labour - please, please, please go for Kendrick (which I think they will) ~& then re-elect a leader for the next election. I have such a respect for many of the Conservative politicians there have been within my lifetime. "Wets" I'd call them not one-nation, but still.

They are Centrist. They, unlike the conservative right wing who love Farage would exclude traitors like Nigel Farage who applied for German citizenship the day after the the Brexit result and who also bet against the pound to cause it to fall because he had got inside information from Yougov that the Brexit vote would win. Reform are about Brexit lies and liars who have caused food prices to go up by £5.8 billion. Reform are like the Nazis who lied to serve their own end and destroyed the country. One Nation want people want to unite rather than play the game of divide and rule.

I don't think Labour would have been elected if they kept Jeremy Corbyn and his Momentum friends in charge. They had to move to the centre or face their party falling apart. Similarly the Tories moving to the Right to try and appeal to Reform voters won't work: those who vote Reform will vote for the real thing and moderate Tories will either abstain or vote Lib Dem.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Yes I support Reform. 😁

Thank you for confirming this. Even if I, as made clear, totally disagree.

valdali

That is one of our democracy's weaknesses, the fact that they have to put so much effort into party politics all the way through their term of office; it must detract from the work of government.I want them to do their best for the country as a parliament, not be constantly scoring points off each other with an eye to the next elections. I'm not saying there's anything better, certainly not for the OK, I know there isn't. Maybe proportional representation & no clear majority as some countries do it, but don't think there would be an effective executive in that model.

the trouble is valdali there is no agreement on what is best for the country, the Tories say creating billionaires is best as they open factories etc that provide jobs for those less well off.

Labour say that these factories, businesses often exploit workers whilst keeping huge profits that they then spend abroad, or stash offshore etc. and avoid paying tax.

I vote Labour, cos we've just seen the Tory way involves massive profits for a few and cuts to vital public services for the majority.

fancythat

Fleurpepper

'I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I think FGT2 has written in the past that she supports Reform.'

yes, so can see no reason why a message stating this was deleted. Ah well, never mind.

I think I read your post before it got deleted. Cant remember what it said, but I didnt notice anything untoward.
Mind you, I had my first post deleted a couple of weeks ago, and have no idea why. It would be helpful to know why, else how can we "improve".

I never saw Monica's deleted post.

I read both posts and have concluded that GN sometimes moves in mysterious ways. Hey ho! (I expect this post will be deleted too.)

Freya5

growstuff

M0nica

growstuff Conservative/ Reform won't make much difference under the new leader, who ever they are.

I agree with you. My anecdotal experience is that most 'centrist' Conservative voters have already abandoned the party, either by not voting or voting for another party. I doubt if any of the people who stood to be leader would have enticed them back. Jenrick (in his current right-wing mode) or Badenoch might encourage some back from Reform, but the total still wouldn't be a threat to Labour. In any case, nearly five years is an eternity in politics.

I'm sure the fact that Labour is here for the next few years won't stop its opponents from being irritants.

Of course there will be "irritants", should this awful Gov be allowed to get away with a free card. I should hope not. Just as Labour and it's supporters were "irritants" to the last Gov.

At least the stories they came up with were genuine and serious.

growstuff

M0nica

growstuff Conservative/ Reform won't make much difference under the new leader, who ever they are.

I agree with you. My anecdotal experience is that most 'centrist' Conservative voters have already abandoned the party, either by not voting or voting for another party. I doubt if any of the people who stood to be leader would have enticed them back. Jenrick (in his current right-wing mode) or Badenoch might encourage some back from Reform, but the total still wouldn't be a threat to Labour. In any case, nearly five years is an eternity in politics.

I'm sure the fact that Labour is here for the next few years won't stop its opponents from being irritants.

Of course there will be "irritants", should this awful Gov be allowed to get away with a free card. I should hope not. Just as Labour and it's supporters were "irritants" to the last Gov.