Well, here we are. 100 days of Labour tomorrow.

ronib

Casdon surely the point is that the government won’t get the full amount first calculated because more pupils will be in the State system and that is a cost! In fact does the government do sums?

The reduction will be marginal, the schools will still print all their literature, buy books, and stationery. The gain to the government will still be very significant. The argument about more pupils in state schools doesn’t really hold water, as the number of children in education is dropping anyway, and there are over 14,000 state schools nationwide. Contrary to what ronib thinks, I’d say they have calculated quite carefully.

Is it the politics of envy to reinvest in improving education for a larger number of children at the expense of the few - I guess we all have different views on that.

Don't quote me on it, FriedGreenTomatoes, but I think education in the EU is exempt from VAT by law. Except in that usual EU way where each member state can choose how that works for them. I'm sure I remember Greece got in a right old mess with it.

Actually, people seem to be assuming that parents will just pay the extra VAT; they won’t (not all). They’ll just stop spending elsewhere: meals out, holidays, local businesses etc etc. same VAT spend just in a different place and meanwhile small businesses suffer. Not sure quite how that works with the growth agenda.

I still think it’s the politics of envy, raising VAT on private education.

Are we in fact the only country to do this??

growstuff

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Power cuts, very expensive energy for homes and business; 20k oil workers losing their jobs. Racing ahead too fast before the science is ready - I'm thinking heat pumps, electric cars. The list goes on. Miliband scares me. He’s like a zealot.

Oil workers can be retrained to install wind farms and solar panels (and maintain them).

Really?
It is quite a different area of expertise.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

FriedGreenTomatoes2

And what about Miliband's deranged enthusiasm for ruining the country, financially and environmentally in pursuit of some pointless target that no other country is even trying to reach.

All his scheme is going to do is move the UK’s carbon footprint abroad.

Solar panels on farming land, just downright ridiculous, put them in buildings, industrial units or car parks.

For once, I partly agree with you GrannyGravy. I'm not that bothered about solar 'farms', although I really don't understand why solar panels aren't being installed on every car park, industrial unit, hospital and school, etc.

I confess I don't know that much about carbon capture, but (from what I've read) it does seem a strange way to invest so much money.

Why doesn't the government give universal grants to people and businesses to make sure their buildings are as well-insulated as possible, with boiler upgrades if necessary? (Lots of potential for you there, by the way ;-))

Every new house being built should have solar panels as a matter of course.

I really don't understand why solar panels aren't being installed on every car park, industrial unit, hospital and school, etc.
Me neither. The Goernment should be making plans to fund this and it would save money in the long-term too.

Casdon surely the point is that the government won’t get the full amount first calculated because more pupils will be in the State system and that is a cost! In fact does the government do sums?

I'm not convinced that a large number of pupils will be driven out of private education this year, or even next, because existing parents will do everything possible to keep their children there. I think the big hit will take place 2 or 3 years down the line because, from now on, children just won't be starting in private education. Entire schools will then be forced to close which would result in a huge new wave of pupils arriving in the state sector September '26/'27.
Hopefully the government will be ready with its additional 6,500 teachers by then, to accommodate the increase in pupil numbers. However I'm not holding my breath.

Why do you think that’s bad news for the government FriedGreenTomatoes2? They will get the money they anticipate regardless.

More bad news for Starmer & Reeves.

“The VAT raid on private schools threatens to force twice as many pupils into state education as claimed by official estimates, the author of a crucial report has admitted.

The Government has relied on a report by the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) published last summer to defend its tax raid on private schools. The report estimated that between 3 and 7 per cent of private school pupils could be driven to the state sector by the policy – around 18,000 to 40,000 pupils.

Sir Keir Starmer and other ministers have repeatedly cited the report when defending their plan to charge VAT on private school fees, which is due to come into effect from Jan 1 2025.

But Luke Sibieta, its author, admitted that the proportion of private school pupils forced into the state sector could be as high as 15 per cent.”

Source: the Telegraph today.

Will this skew Rachel Reeves figures? Things don’t seem to be working out.

Casdon

Lisaangel10

Casdon

The French are excellent when it comes to infrastructure, aren’t they. It’s clean with very little litter, the roads are good, and people take real pride in their towns looking their best, always flowers etc. It doesn’t surprise me that they invest in green projects.

What? Last time I looked France had a massive littering problem. Paris is even dirtier than London. Dogs mess in France has always been an issue.

www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2018/11/mapped-europes-most-and-least-polluted-countries

That’s about pollution and emissions which you didn’t mention in your post.

www.connexionfrance.com/news/france-battles-rise-in-littering-and-fly-tipping/654380

Lisaangel10

Casdon

The French are excellent when it comes to infrastructure, aren’t they. It’s clean with very little litter, the roads are good, and people take real pride in their towns looking their best, always flowers etc. It doesn’t surprise me that they invest in green projects.

What? Last time I looked France had a massive littering problem. Paris is even dirtier than London. Dogs mess in France has always been an issue.

www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2018/11/mapped-europes-most-and-least-polluted-countries

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Lighten up. Remember the names for Boris? I never moaned. 😊

I think Mr Johnson invented his own nick name?

Casdon

The French are excellent when it comes to infrastructure, aren’t they. It’s clean with very little litter, the roads are good, and people take real pride in their towns looking their best, always flowers etc. It doesn’t surprise me that they invest in green projects.

What? Last time I looked France had a massive littering problem. Paris is even dirtier than London. Dogs mess in France has always been an issue.

Totally agree Casdon. And, it's not just green projects in France, it's investment in living in the moment. The Labour Party seems to want to kill off things which make daily life easier and more pleasant for many of us. Macron had a terrible time leading up to June, but obviously buoyed by the success of The Olympic Games, he bounced back and gave France reasons to be proud and joyful. It didn't take him 100 days. I've never seen people in France so much on a high, whereas here it is all doom and gloom, black holes, dark tunnels etc. I hope the Labour Party will come round to explaining the reasons for their actions in a far more hopeful, positive manner. And before anyone asks for facts, figures etc I am talking here about the political mood in the country. That for me is what is lacking and dragging them down. That for me is their challenge- to stop the bleak outlook, and to bring some optimism or they will drift even further into the abyss, (not saying that some of this wasn't caused by their predecessors).

Well Lisaangel10 here’s one soul who is very happy with the great start from this Labour government … and all against a backdrop of a relentless witch hunt from Murdoch’s media.

GrannyGravy13

winterwhite

Do we know whether Whitewave is away or ill? I hope not the latter.

Whitewavemark2 started a thread yesterday on Labours new workers rights Bill.

You can take it from me that she is fine.

I have NO sympathy for the so-called WASPI women; the only inequality was for men, who had to work until they were 65 to draw their pension, and few of them had time off for maternity leave. The changes were broadcast everywhere; radio, TV, Newspapers, discussion programmes, word of mouth, many years before, unlike the Winter Fuel Allowance.

The French are excellent when it comes to infrastructure, aren’t they. It’s clean with very little litter, the roads are good, and people take real pride in their towns looking their best, always flowers etc. It doesn’t surprise me that they invest in green projects.

I've been travelling around Normandy and Brittany all summer, so made frequent visits to supermarkets! It seemed that every carpark was having building work done to put in solar panels across their surface area. I assume there are incentives for the shops for such projects, like electricity usage, but nothing similar being offered here?

winterwhite

Do we know whether Whitewave is away or ill? I hope not the latter.

Whitewavemark2 started a thread yesterday on Labours new workers rights Bill.

Jaxjacky

I agree Maybee70 but I’m not sure how that relates directly to the T’s and C’s for this possible investment?

Because DP World owns P & O and would presumably have been responsible for recruitment.

winterwhite I feel the same as you. I'm not usually a Labour voter either.

Calendargirl

growstuff

It would be great to install solar panels wherever you suggest, but not every area you mention would be suitable.

Got to face the right way, get enough light etc.

Of course, but there are still many areas where they could be installed and they're not.

MayBee70

Jaxjacky

I don’t know the detail of the potential investment growstuff do you have it?

I do know that what P&O did to its staff was despicable and that, I believe, is what Angela Rayner referred to.

That's my understanding too. I'll try to find out some more details, but I suspect the problem was that profits would not have been paid in the UK and the staff would have been recruited overseas.