The US Election.

Macadia

Three states in theUS have activated the National Guard soldiers as back ups to the police in case of civil unrest tomorrow. Something about burning ballot boxes. Why don't they have those boxes in a building I wonder.

Three states in theUS have activated the National Guard soldiers as back ups to the police in case of civil unrest tomorrow. Something about burning ballot boxes. Why don't they have those boxes in a building I wonder.

@Nmama, glad you reminded me of that, had completely forgotten. Am sorry your country has to cope with this circus, can recall previous elections, rather a lot of them because am in my late sixties, and up until Trump got involved it was never like this, or if it was you can correct me. I rather liked Carter, though am sure the Iranian revolution and hostage crisis damaged his time as president. After that I liked Obama.

When I consider how bright Musk is I always remember his attempt to help out those 13 or so boys in Thailand, I think, who went spelunking and got trapped inside the cave when the water rose. To get to where they were they had had to wriggle and bend and twist their bodies. It was clear that the boys would also have to be able to wriggle and twist and bend through the same narrow passage . . . but underwater. But Elon came to the rescue! He invented something the boys could lie in so that they could get through the passage in order to get out! The problem was that Elon didn't have the least understanding of cave exploration, and he turned up to save the day . . . with a rigid, solid metal device that was absolutely useless and downright stupid. He came to the rescue when Americans needed breathing devices during covid, too, and made a big fuss about that (as he always does) in order to attract praise and admiration (a bit like Trump). Unfortunately he donated CPAP machines, which are just grand for people who have sleep apnea . . . but they were completely useless for people hospitalized for covid. Both of those stunts strike me as the work of a man who wants to be admired but is simply clueless about a lot of real-world practicalities and doesn't learn from his mistakes--as in, before you donate something, Elon, make sure it will WORK.

I'm sure you heard about how he called one of the British divers trying to save those boys a "pedo" because the diver said Musk's device was useless. What a childish, nasty person! But that's right in line with Trump: anyone he doesn't like or who disagrees with him is dumb and stupid and so on. I wish Musk would go "save" some country other than the USA.

Indeed Farage has been to the US 3 times since being elected, yet has not been seen in Clacton.
Bet they're glad they voted for him.

Oh of course Farage is in the US, so full of his own self importance that he is fit to burst. As for his constituency I hear they haven't had any mileage out of him since the election so they probably won't notice he has gone.

Farage is back in America with GB News. Why isn’t he working in his constituency?

The good that someone in that position could do babs instead of these evils.

Its destroying their democracy - surely people can see that from here?

Borrowing from the CNN piece you sent a link to Wyllow3, I think this sums up how I feel about Musk -

“The bottom line is it’s really disappointing that someone with as many resources and as big of a platform as he clearly has would use those resources and allow that platform to be misused to spread misinformation,” Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson told CNN, “when he could help us restore and ensure people can have rightly placed faith in our election outcomes, whatever they may be.”

Is as if Musk believes his money gives him the divine right to interfere in the democratic process in the US as well as interfering in our politics in the UK. He is an ideal ally for Trump who in his previous campaign cosied up to the alt-right Bannon, but this time has found himself someone who has unlimited means to spew the kind of misinformation Trump thrives on, and Musk is slightly more articulate though that is no real competition.
Is like badly written satire.

And Mt61, Musk may be on the autistic spectrum but that doesn’t excuse bad behaviour - thst May well be down to his personality and life choices

foxie48

I loathe him (Musk), he may be the richest person in the US which gives him power but IMO he doesn't use that power in a way that is good for his fellow man and woman. There is a huge mismatch between his intellectual capacity and emotional intelligence, which is very sad, just imagine how incredible he could be but he's just another very rich white man throwing his weight around and his toys out of the pram if he doesn't get his way.

Precisely. We do well to remember the number of people who become CEO’s , parliamentarians/congressmen, who lack empathy or emotional intelligence. Musk and Trump prime examples.

Oops yes. 🫢

Mind you, he's been busy causing problems/spreading lies last minute

"
Elon Musk’s misinformation megaphone has created a “huge problem” for election officials in key battleground states who told CNN they’re struggling to combat the wave of falsehoods coming from the tech billionaire and spreading wildly on his X platform."

Election officials in pivotal battleground states including Pennsylvania, Michigan and Arizona have all tried – and largely failed – to fact-check Musk in real time. At least one has tried passing along personal notes asking he stop spreading baseless claims likely to mislead voters.

“I’ve had my friends hand-deliver stuff to him,” said Stephen Richer, a top election official in Arizona’s Maricopa County, a Republican who has faced violent threats for saying the 2020 election was secure.

edition.cnn.com/2024/10/31/politics/election-officials-outmatched-elon-musk-misinformation

Wyllow3

This money MaizieD - I keep thinking of Medicare (or whatever its called now_ and how dreadfully inadequate it is, and the consequences on the poorest, them I think of Musk giving Trump 75 billion in one go - and I just feel disgust 😡

Yes Dickens was thinking the days and days - must be recounts. If it's close, yes - I dont know about the "concerned parties" but Trump is sure to use it? Could drag on - costing yet more.

Give over, I think you mean million!

SMEs. Many are not that small I don’t know how many employees is the most that qualify. Clearly a haulage business has to employ a driver for every truck, the owner is usually the manager and may have 10 trucks. Even Elon Musk started as an SME, most stay as an SME a few grow into big companies.

Musks wealth is entirely the value based on the company shares, the value the stock market puts on them, he obviously needs a lot of employees to run the companies, making the products we want to buy.

How does Musk spend $300 billion the answer is he doesn’t, Bill Gates gives most of it away to charity. Capitalism means individuals accumulate wealth, all wealth controlled by the state has been tried and failed USSR, Cuba and Venezuela.

There is no incentive to work so everyone is worse off, China although a communist state does allow personal wealth if you follow the party rules. Those that abhor wealth really would not like living in a communist state where wealth doesn’t exist.

David49

How are the people going to feed and house themselves if they don’t have paid work too do, you want to live in a rural third world village where there is no work, if you don’t grow your own food you don’t eat. That’s what no work means, nobody works for nothing someone has to pay them.

I'm not disputing that, David. What I am pointing out is that they don't create any wealth, they just suck it in from, ultimately, consumers.

It should be perfectly feasible to grow provide food, shelter etc. as a business without being, or becoming, incredibly wealthy to do so. In fact, aren't people moaning about the effect of IHT on our 'poor' farmers who give such valuable service?

And isn't it accepted that the backbone of economies tends to be the millions of SMEs which provide for many of our wants/needs, and provide employment, without the owners becoming unfeasibly wealthy?

Both sides are prepared to challenge any close results, not just Trump.
Reports said both the Republicans and the Democrats were getting ‘lawyered up’.

Some express disgust at Musk’s huge financial contribution to the Trump campaign.
I am more disgusted by the Labour party sending one hundred politicians to campaign on behalf of Harris.
I remember how cross I felt when Obama brought over here with his dire threats about what would happen if we voted to leave the EU.

Meanwhile, some analysts are saying the world will be a safer place with Donald Trump as President as his unpredictability makes dangerous, volatile world leaders too nervous to act.

NotSpaghetti

MaizieD I may have missed something ipthread but I thought they had put things in place???
Ami wrong?

I was really just saying that it would be pretty clueless of them if they hadn't

Its quite a read - but a fascinating glimpse inside Trumps' team NotSpaghetti

Interesting article about how Trump is doing/has been doing. Covers the inside of the campaign. Worth reading.

In the Atlantic - but a free article:

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/11/trump-2024-campaign-lewandowski-conway/680456/?gift=BbUa1UILp6ylLELDRQL6id6F98g3eh7YtwIodYRstsQ&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

This money MaizieD - I keep thinking of Medicare (or whatever its called now_ and how dreadfully inadequate it is, and the consequences on the poorest, them I think of Musk giving Trump 75 billion in one go - and I just feel disgust 😡

Yes Dickens was thinking the days and days - must be recounts. If it's close, yes - I dont know about the "concerned parties" but Trump is sure to use it? Could drag on - costing yet more.

How are the people going to feed and house themselves if they don’t have paid work too do, you want to live in a rural third world village where there is no work, if you don’t grow your own food you don’t eat. That’s what no work means, nobody works for nothing someone has to pay them.

I'd like David to explain how Musk creates wealth. Does he have a printing press in his garden to churn out dollars for him?

Rich people get rich by moving money from consumers to their pockets. The money the consumers used is created by governments, which are the only issuers of the state currency. Even though banks are able to create money for loans they can only do it with the approval of the government and even then, the money that they create actually comes back to them when the loan is repaid. BUT, it comes back to them PLUS interest, which is paid, not from the money they created, but from the government created money. So they, too, only account for money moving around the economy, not the actual expansion of the money supply. Once the money comes back to them it is virtually destroyed, plus they've sucked a bit more out of the economy.

So, at the base of this process are people, as others have pointed out. The people who actually make the product, or carry out the services offered by the entrepreneur, and the consumer who buy the product or services.

The trillions of money held by wealthy people represent the money that states have issued over the years which the states haven't been able to recover from them via taxation.

When it comes down to it one has to ask, is it a valid use of state created money to allow it to accumulate in the coffers of the wealthy, where much of it does little other than suck in more money by way of dividends and interest, or should it be more evenly distributed to enable all citizens to live reasonably comfortable lives?

Obviously the wealthy have one answer to that question... so do their sycophants. But what about the rest of us?

Thanks for that info and links Wyllow3.

... there's so much to take in.

I wonder how long all the postal ballots will take to be counted?

And, importantly, whether there will be demands for recounts at State level because of accusations of fraud?

I've been researching the history of post-election disputes which go far back to 1876, Some states have an automatic recount provision for a 'close-call' but I gather the majority allow a losing candidate/ voter / group of 'concerned' parties to petition for a recount.

Hmm...

foxie48

I loathe him (Musk), he may be the richest person in the US which gives him power but IMO he doesn't use that power in a way that is good for his fellow man and woman. There is a huge mismatch between his intellectual capacity and emotional intelligence, which is very sad, just imagine how incredible he could be but he's just another very rich white man throwing his weight around and his toys out of the pram if he doesn't get his way.

Think him being autistic has something to do with that

Its widely thought that Trump will claim victory early, after the in person polling is counted but before the postal ballots are finished (this can be days after in some states, and are thought to favour the democrats)
"n his speech, Trump baselessly claimed Democrats are “fighting so hard to steal this damn thing,” and that voting machines would be tampered with.

“They spend all this money, all this money on machines, and they’re going to say, we may take an extra 12 days to determine. And what do you think happens during that 12 days? What do you think happens?” Trump said.

The crowd yelled back: “Cheating!”

“These elections have to be, they have to be decided by 9 o’clock, 10 o’clock, 11 o’clock on Tuesday night. Bunch of crooked people, these are crooked people,” Trump said.

The former president’s newest round of threats caps off a campaign with one of the darkest, most menacing closing messages in modern American history. In the last few weeks alone, Trump has doubled down on a pledge to use the military to combat the civilian “enemy within”"

edition.cnn.com/2024/11/03/politics/trump-dark-closing-message/index.html?iid=cnn_buildContentRecirc_end_recirc