Autism and Kemi Badenoch

commenting on With regard to KB, I think it unlikely that she’ll be elected as leader

I don't know: the statements on neurodiversity were not included in the ConservativeHome leaflet, which has just a general introduction to the philosophy that KB embraces.

The devil is in the detail - of what is really likely to happen.

Its not all about entry to the world of work, either, there are many ways of being productive citizens, and for those with more serious conditions, being able to function with lower levels of support than might otherwise be the case - this alone is a good reason for help at an early age. (such as it is!)

foxie48

I find it interesting that although we need more people in the work place some will see things that are given or changed to help someone stay in a job as "advantages" The son of a friend is taken to and from work by taxi and has a sound proof work station separate to his colleagues all paid for by his employer. He cannot work from home for security reasons but he's super bright and a real asset at work, however, he cannot cope on trains or buses and hasn't learned to drive. I don't think his work colleagues see him as having "advantages" they probably feel relieved that they do not have similar issues.

Thank you for your post. What an enlightened employer.

I find it interesting that although we need more people in the work place some will see things that are given or changed to help someone stay in a job as "advantages" The son of a friend is taken to and from work by taxi and has a sound proof work station separate to his colleagues all paid for by his employer. He cannot work from home for security reasons but he's super bright and a real asset at work, however, he cannot cope on trains or buses and hasn't learned to drive. I don't think his work colleagues see him as having "advantages" they probably feel relieved that they do not have similar issues.

I have a grandson who is neurodivergent. He has ADHD. He is a gorgeous child but needs a bit of help. I’m relieved that this is being recognised more readily these days.

With regard to KB, I think it unlikely that she’ll be elected as leader.

The last sentence surely makes clear the disapproval of the resources put into some people

"In short, whereas once psychological and mental health was seen as something that people should work on themselves as individuals, mental health has become something that society, schools and employers have to adapt around."

Again, I'm pointing out the conflation between neurodiversity and "mental health" and see only a hostility in this statement - ie "shouldn't be allowed to happen"

This attempts to undo the patient and slow acceptance of neurodiversity in our population by the hard work of families and professionals - and also labels people who actually have totally different circumstances as all the same.

I don't disagree with your point David....since being in a job where you are set to fail is not good for anyone. However, promoting a hostile environment is more likely that people will feel they have to hide in shame rather than say, "I have difficulties with"..."but can do x,y,z".

At my local Sainsbury's checkouts we have several people who actually were the sunflower badge and have some clear neurodiverse traits, and I have noticed the levels of acceptance in regular customers and wouldn't like to return to the days when this wasnt OK.

I do Growstuff and so they should have! The “advantages” only bring them to the starting line others are at already surely?

"In short, whereas once psychological and mental health was seen as something that people should work on themselves as individuals, mental health has become something that society, schools and employers have to adapt around."- Ms Badenoch's last comment in the OP's quote. I agree that one can work on one's mental health oneself - to some extent - but if you have a mental illness you may well need specialist help from time to time.... As for Miss B's comments about people who have been diagnosed as neurodiverse, that is a very specialist area of work...and I speak as a retired generic social worker with over 25 years' experience of working in hospitals and with the military....

But do you think that people with disabilities have advantages, as Badenoch claims?

growstuff

Maybe people do think that no allowances should be made for people with autism and mental health conditions. I was hoping to discuss that view.

Neurodiversity is not a black or white situation those affected are often very good at some tasks but hopeless at others, and there are degrees of affection, what matters to an employer is can they do the job efficiently.
Can you imagine the chaos caused by a dyslexic shelf stacker in a supermarket, maybe within the company there is work that can be done efficiently maybe not. In my opinion workers should declare any significant restriction that might affect their ability to work efficiently

In the context of the pamphlet as a whole it is presented as an "identity" issue that is not a societal issue but individual and family issue.
I disagree with this - its not part of "woke" politics.

Parsley3

I have just reread the extract in the OP and I can see why it is ambiguous. There is no context. I will try to find the whole article to see what, if any, conclusion it comes to regarding the support for people with autism. As it stands, I don't know if it is praise or criticism.

I posted a link to the whole pamphlet.

To me, her views are unambiguous. I was wondering if other people agreed with her (I'm sure some do).

I have just reread the extract in the OP and I can see why it is ambiguous. There is no context. I will try to find the whole article to see what, if any, conclusion it comes to regarding the support for people with autism. As it stands, I don't know if it is praise or criticism.

Wyllow3

She shows a basic lack of understanding between neurodivergence and mental health issues by conflating the two as in the O/P

"If you have a neurodiversity diagnosis (e.g. anxiety, autism)"

I think in her mind she sees these as "woke" categories to be fought in her personal skewed world view.

I think that’s what she is implying, but she doesn’t have her finger on the pulse of society now if she is saying that. Surely these views will alienate all those parents who are fighting for a better education for their school age children, which is the opposite of what an aspiring party leader should be doing?

Maybe people do think that no allowances should be made for people with autism and mental health conditions. I was hoping to discuss that view.

David49

If Badenoch has just “come out” and admitted Neurodiversity in some form is she really the person we want taking the most important decisions for the nation if the Tories were to get power.
To be a leader you have to be tough, decisive, the best, weakness is punished mercilessly - by your own side, she has just sunk her chances.

I'm fairly sure she hasn't come out as neurodivergent. She's talking about other people. What she's claiming is that people who are diagnosed have an advantage in schools and workplaces.

If Badenoch has just “come out” and admitted Neurodiversity in some form is she really the person we want taking the most important decisions for the nation if the Tories were to get power.
To be a leader you have to be tough, decisive, the best, weakness is punished mercilessly - by your own side, she has just sunk her chances.

Allira

growstuff

Allira

Anyone who diverges from the approved narrative seems to be misinterpreted, Baggs 😀

So do you think that too much is spent on people with autism and that they have some kind of advantage (because that's what she's saying)?

We weren't referring to Kemi Badenoch.

Well, that's what this thread is about and what Kemi Badenoch is claiming - ie that too much is spent on people with disabilities (and anybody else seen as being "different").

My both my GS’s are badly dyslexic.

Both had to work extremely hard to overcome this divergence from the apparent “norm”

Neither would have succeeded without a great deal of help from experts in the field, paid for to a large extent by their parents.

Both have clear abilities that “normal” people lack which has resulted in them shining in their chosen career.

Badenoch simply marches into subjects with her rather large boots on (both left footed). She should learn to take a more measured approach.

She shows a basic lack of understanding between neurodivergence and mental health issues by conflating the two as in the O/P

"If you have a neurodiversity diagnosis (e.g. anxiety, autism)"

I think in her mind she sees these as "woke" categories to be fought in her personal skewed world view.

growstuff

Allira

Anyone who diverges from the approved narrative seems to be misinterpreted, Baggs 😀

So do you think that too much is spent on people with autism and that they have some kind of advantage (because that's what she's saying)?

We weren't referring to Kemi Badenoch.

Yes this is true growstuff. I spent many hours of my professional life gaining support, spending a very small budget and bidding for extra resources to support neurodiverse students. As with all school students, every child matters ( anyone remember that policy?) it is costly from training teachers and school staff to supporting through to employment.
I hope when the dust settles that the current government focuses on education, after all children are our future.

I did read it all growstuff obviously my interpretation is different from others.

Allira

Anyone who diverges from the approved narrative seems to be misinterpreted, Baggs 😀

So do you think that too much is spent on people with autism and that they have some kind of advantage (because that's what she's saying)?

J52

Over the years I’ve worked with many neurodiverse students.
Prior to the 1980s and the work of Mary Warnock and others in the field, school children with no diagnosis were just considered, odd, difficult and sometimes unable to access education. Thank goodness the unique abilities of many neurodiverse people is now recognised. It doesn’t take much research to see that the world has benefited, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs to name two.

True, but ask any parent of a neurodivergent child about their actual experience in schools or the workplace. People might know about it, but they don't do much about it, despite a few well-publicised successful people.

It makes me feel very angry. It's taken so long for people to get the help they need in schools and the workplace without the shame often attached to these areas.

She is openly attacking the help children and young people get in schools

we can have no confidence she would continue to fund these efforts

She appeals to the very worst of attitudes in the workplace - clear she'd have a go at support in employment and turn understanding into hostility and possible bullying.

She clearly totally lacks both understanding and compassion is she clearly believes people can "pull their socks up" without support. Back to a leaner, meaner, small society at the cost to those who dont fit her ideologies.

I hope the leaflet circulates in Conservative Party voter circles before the vote