I do wish Keir Starmer would stop talking about ‘working people’!

Doodledog 👏👏👏

What KS has said (as has RR and others in the Cabinet) is that people like me will not pay more tax on my earnings as a result of the budget
Would you not pay more if you have a pay rise?

Some people may find themselves paying tax for the first time or in a higher tax bracket due to fiscal drag.

I wanna live like working people, apologies to Pulp.😁

Allira

^What KS has said (as has RR and others in the Cabinet) is that people like me will not pay more tax on my earnings as a result of the budget^
Would you not pay more if you have a pay rise?

Some people may find themselves paying tax for the first time or in a higher tax bracket due to fiscal drag.

Well yes, of course. In my case it would have to be a very large pay rise, but someone working full time could very easily find themselves moved to a higher bracket.

It was Jeremy Hunt who froze the tax bands, and I had hoped that RR would be able to raise them - maybe she will, but I doubt it, as there is such a deficit to deal with.

That really has nothing to do with the definition of 'working people' though.

Oreo

I wanna live like working people, apologies to Pulp.😁

I'll see what I can do.

Working, not working, most people pay income tax.

Everyone pays tax on goods and services plus other taxes.

Allira

Working, not working, most people pay income tax.

Everyone pays tax on goods and services plus other taxes.

Yes.

But what the government is saying is that tax on earnings (ie money that has been worked for, by working people) will not attract a tax rise in this parliament, and nor will VAT or NI for employees. It's not as confusing as it is being made to sound.

Only on money that has been earned by working people, that is, earnings, but saved and invested?

Doodledog

Allira

Working, not working, most people pay income tax.

Everyone pays tax on goods and services plus other taxes.

Yes.

But what the government is saying is that tax on earnings (ie money that has been worked for, by working people) will not attract a tax rise in this parliament, and nor will VAT or NI for employees. It's not as confusing as it is being made to sound.

But there's always some nitpicker around who will pick up on semantics.

I want to know who Peter and Paul are.
I mean poor old Peter is always getting robbed, while Paul, the greedy sod gets paid!

eazybee

Only on money that has been earned by working people, that is, earnings, but saved and invested?

Savings and investments will be fair game, I think.

Seriously - does anyone actually think that HMRC is going to do some sort of class test to determine whether taxable money has been earned or not?

The government has said that working people won't have less in their pay packets because of tax rises, not that only the middle classes will be taxed . Working people have savings, too. They will have to pay more tax on the interest if that is targeted - the same as non-working people.

As is regularly pointed out, we pay tax on more than just income. What the government has said is that they are not going to increase the burden of taxation on those who work for their income. For far too long they have been expected to carry everyone, and that will not happen in this parliament.

The fact that they have also ruled out a rise in VAT and NI suggests that tax increases will be on non-earned income. Which leaves savings interest, dividends, rent, capital gains and inheritance. Everything except earned income, VAT and NI is up for grabs to help to pay for the NHS, education, housing defence and so on.

Nobody will be singled out. If (eg) savings interest is taxed more, that will apply to everyone with savings, there will not be a free pass for horny handed sons (or daughters) of toil .

Reading the posts on here, it seems we can expect be taxed more (however it is disguised)
so we won’t have as much to save-meaning we will earn less interest that can be taxed.
It’s like that song

🎶One way, or another
they’ll have your money,
They’re going to tax you, tax you,
tax you, tax you . . .

Working people
Hardworking families
Build back better
Just about managing
Back to basics
Brexit means Brexit
Cost of living crisis
Etc

They are just political soundbites.

Well whatever happens on Wednesday in the budget, I’m filling my car up on Tuesday.

Seems sensible to do that before any budget. Also if you drink alcohol it often pays to stock up on that too, specially before Christmas.

Of course there will be tax hikes. Nobody has suggested otherwise. How else are they supposed to get money for services?

Thank you Doodle for the explanation at 21.59 its made it clear.

Allira

Working people
Hardworking families
Build back better
Just about managing
Back to basics
Brexit means Brexit
Cost of living crisis
Etc

They are just political soundbites.

The political soundbites that irritate the heck out of me - and this is not aimed at the current government in particular - are, as you said...

hard-working families
working people

But when a politician prefaces his / her comment with something like, "the British people have spoken...", or Theresa May's, "will of the people"... it grinds my gears.

And it's always said with a very.serious.face - with gravitas -as if said politician is in awe of "the British people" for whom they have the utmost respect. Am I alone in finding it patronising?

I also dislike the "difficult decisions" - and again, it isn't just the current government that uses this technique - they all do it to prepare us for a budget.

Will it effect the economy? The friends I've spoken to are tightening their belts and just not spending on anything other than essentials - tho' I think they'll relax a bit over Christmas. But my close friend, for example, has just been hit with a 25% monthly rent increase - and we're all going to pay a higher price for our gas and electricity - and water, I've now been informed.

I'm glad working people are not going to take a hit to their wages - because these have stagnated for years, but in spite of inflation now at one of its lowest levels, so many workers are still finding it hard to make ends meet.

Shropshirelass

We have all been working people, many worked very hard to provide for our old age, he is trying to strip this from us, despicable man and party!

Shropshirelass, I agree. I read somewhere that the chancellor is now called "Rachel Reeves, Queen of Thieves", seems to suit her. If people have worked hard, been thrifty and put a bit by, she wants to tax it again. Same with inheritance tax, people who bought their own house paid income tax on their salary; and instead of buying goods and holidays, bought a home but are taxed again when they die. It is so unfair. Many of these people now 'just get by' taking only the state pension that they paid NI for. Most people don't get a chance of Freebies and buy the cheapest reading specs; what type of specs cost £2,000?

bump

RVK1CR

Shropshirelass

We have all been working people, many worked very hard to provide for our old age, he is trying to strip this from us, despicable man and party!

Shropshirelass, I agree. I read somewhere that the chancellor is now called "Rachel Reeves, Queen of Thieves", seems to suit her. If people have worked hard, been thrifty and put a bit by, she wants to tax it again. Same with inheritance tax, people who bought their own house paid income tax on their salary; and instead of buying goods and holidays, bought a home but are taxed again when they die. It is so unfair. Many of these people now 'just get by' taking only the state pension that they paid NI for. Most people don't get a chance of Freebies and buy the cheapest reading specs; what type of specs cost £2,000?

Just to repeat ... the amount which has been taxed won't be taxed again, but if money (an asset) produces a profit from the way it's used, it will be taxed.

Nobody will receive a tax bill when they die ... or at least they won't be around to pay it.

Very few people are in favour of this spiralling wealth inequality we see around us.
What they would be in favour of is a fairer way of sorting it than these rash blanket decisions which often affect the wrong people.

I've said before, after some initial groans, that I fully accept having to pay the additional 20% on school fees for my DGC. The money is sitting in a bank account, doing nothing, and if it helps provide an additional two Maths teachers at the local community college, then brilliant! (Though let's believe that when we see it!)
It's also probably right that parents with a joint disposable income over £100k should pay the new increase.
BUT what about the number of "working" parents who are now taking on additional "jobs" just because they want to be able to pay for a particular type of education for their children? Or the ones who have to move their children's school mid-year? Or the ones who can only afford for one sibling to carry on attending? They are the ones being hit, and the ones who will inevitably be poorer in every sense.

Sort out the mess by all means, but like with the WFP, have some compassion and understanding, and go after the people with too much money in order to achieve this.

They will have to live within their means,presumably.
There is no reason why other people's tax should prop them up.

Just to repeat ... the amount which has been taxed won't be taxed again, but if money (an asset) produces a profit from the way it's used, it will be taxed.

Well said, growstuff.

Do you think if we said this often enough it might sink in?

So if the value of my house in London last year produced a profit of £40,000, yet that of my friend in Hull produced £6,000, why should those who inherit my gaff be penalised? That money is going to increase exponentially year on year too, so the wealthy just get wealthier through no choice of their own?

I'm sure the government could rectify that.