Sir K claims "a budget for Working People", ha!!!

That’s not likely, the French system is different a large proportion of the population have a stake in farming, demonstrations are taken very seriously! upsetting farmers is not advisable.
The EU has a self sufficiency policy for food too.

eazybee

Difficult to say if it is a 'budget for working people 'as Starmer is unable to define 'working people.'
Very uneasy about the record tax burden and increased borrowing to fund dubious projects.

It’s not hard. He means anyone who doesn’t fit his undefined criteria.
Stop worrying about the purposes and track the timescale, introduction, cost, and impact.

LizzieDrip

ronib et al, you do know that a farmer inheriting a farm will only pay IHT on anything over £2million!

The bulk of farms, particularly family farms, come under that value so still won’t qualify for IHT.

On the government website it confirms what I thought, it's £1million. A 'farm' worth less than one million pounds will be a smallholding not a farm.

Many people in this country would be very happy to inherit a farm (or anything) worth £2,406,900. Tax should be paid in it. you do realise a farm is not a saleable asset in the way say a house would be? Sell it on and buy something smaller? Farms are often asset rich but money poor. I'd suggest doing some more research before making such statements.

£1 million exemption for the farm land, in addition to the usual residential exemption for the dwelling passing to resident spouse equates £2 million exemption in total.

LizzieDrip You are assuming the farmhouse is worth £1 million? And if there isn't a resident spouse? I must be reading the government website wrongly since that definitely mentions £1 million in total but if you'd care to link to your sources that would be good. This article seems to think differently to you. It states that a farm worth £2 million will be paying IHT
www.farmersguide.co.uk/business/politics/chancellor-announces-hammer-blow-reforms-to-agricultural-property-relief/

Agreed Rosie it’s always a good idea to do research before making statements. Dan Neidle, the tax lawyer, explains it very well.

Dickens

M0nica

BevSec

growstuff

biglouis

Taxes are a legalised form of theft.

What a ridiculous statement.

Biglouis quite correct!

So how would you pay for roads and schools and the NHS and street lighting and the police and the fire service and the army and all the other unconsidered facilities and services we all take for granted as we go aabout our lives?

Good question.

I assume those who think tax is legalised theft would rather only pay for what they use personally.

I think you'd have to be pretty wealthy to be able to afford the upkeep of the street you live on. Roads and motorways would have to levy a toll - you'd have to take out a policy with your local or nearest fire brigade; pay private insurance for health - including emergency care - pay for each child's education. Not sure how we could work out which bit of the army you might need to defend yourself and how much you might have to pay for it. At the same time save to buy a house, provide for your old-age...

Just how many people could afford to be entirely economically self-sufficient realistically?

It's a ridiculous suggestion. When you take out private insurance, you are still entering into the same principle involved with general taxation. The pricing of your policy will have been made on various assumptions which will include your premiums paying for those who end up needing treatment - while you may not.

Of course, we could have gated communities for those who are wealthy enough to be able to afford to only pay for what they need, and the rest of society can live beyond the pale and shift the best they can for themselves. The difficulty would be that from these you would need to draw the labour to service the gated communities - these 'peasants' would be the ones unblocking your drains, repairing your roads, disposing of your rubbish, etc... a whole army of deprived people living outside the fence working for the wealthy few. What could possibly go wrong?

We all are taxed too much, my mum used to say if the government could tax fresh air they would! We cannot aspire to anything because of tax implications, we are taxed on money we have already been taxed on, double dipping. Stamp duty has killed the housing market, there is VAT on just about everything and its really so wrong that the personal allowance threshold is still frozen, dragging pensioners who get just a little over the very small state pension, in to having to oay tax. The burden is onerous.

Killed the housing market! What nonsense is this?

My mother used to say " the more tax you're paying, the more you are earning and the more responsibility you have for people less fortunate than you" I find the idea that taxation kills "aspiration" completely unfathomable, money is not the main motivator for many of us but I can only assume it is for some. However, I do agree with Bevsec in that I would like to see the basic personal allowance increased so that those in society with small pensions don't get taxed but the difference seems to be, I am prepared to pay more tax to help fund it.

foxie48 I think very many people are prepared to pay more tax to help fund the things they agree with. The trouble is we don't get to decide how and where the government targets that help. Would you have been happy to pay more tax under the Conservative government for them to direct it where they wished? I wouldn't have been.
When the withdrawal of the WFA was announced some of us expressed dismay on behalf of those just over the threshold for pension credit saying a cliff edge like that was unjust. There were several posters who jumped in to say of course the Government would announce mitigations to address that in the budget. There have been no mitigations announced despite those posters being certain there would be.

I don’t think anybody said there would be mitigations for the withdrawal of the WFP in the budget Rosie51. A lot of us said we hoped there would be, which is not the same thing. I’m disappointed about that aspect of the budget.
I am however happy to pay more taxes to improve public services, and it really grates on me when people who complain about paying more taxes now are the most vociferous complainants about the public services they use.

Ilovecheese

Killed the housing market! What nonsense is this?

Indeed. Bev Sec have actually just had an email from local estate agents outlining changes completely unperturbed. If you want to buy a second home or buy to rent take the hit.

Yes I agree with raising the tax threshold marginally.

Wyllow3

Ilovecheese

Killed the housing market! What nonsense is this?

Indeed. Bev Sec have actually just had an email from local estate agents outlining changes completely unperturbed. If you want to buy a second home or buy to rent take the hit.

Yes I agree with raising the tax threshold marginally.

When stamp duty was lifted by the Tories the housing market took off, I know because I sold 3 properties during this period and my solicitor said she had never known it so busy. Now I know five people all with properties in the south east on the market, one property substantial detached house near a university, on the market for 17 months and only a handful of viewers and no offers, and also a bungalow on for many months without a single viewing so to all the scoffers, I do know what I am talking about.

I do take the point that we are happier to pay tax if we could direct where it is spent such as public services as pointed out on above posts but public money is wasted on so much else, bloated public sector, train drivers, illegal immigrants, and so much else which I did see when working in the public sector. There are too many NHS beaurocrats for one thing, and also Brexit was caused in part by the gravy train that was Brussels. Then there is the foreign aid budget. So much money squandered.

Rosie51

foxie48 I think very many people are prepared to pay more tax to help fund the things they agree with. The trouble is we don't get to decide how and where the government targets that help. Would you have been happy to pay more tax under the Conservative government for them to direct it where they wished? I wouldn't have been.
When the withdrawal of the WFA was announced some of us expressed dismay on behalf of those just over the threshold for pension credit saying a cliff edge like that was unjust. There were several posters who jumped in to say of course the Government would announce mitigations to address that in the budget. There have been no mitigations announced despite those posters being certain there would be.

I think it was right to remove WFP from all pensioners because I believe in additional support being targeted. I hope we end up with a huge increase in poorer pensioners claiming pension credit and getting all the additional benefits associated with that (including WFP) as far as I am concerned that is a huge "win". I did the questionaire to get an idea of whether I would qualify for pension credit but I used a full basic pension, home paid for no mortgage or rent and only £200 in my current account and £1,000 in savings. It said I could get an additional £15.20 a week in pension credit + a lot of other benefits. I think instead of complaining we should be ensuring every pensioner check their eligibility so everyone who needs it, gets it! I voted to try to get a labour government and we have one. I'll support it as best I can as I'd really not want another Tory one led possibly by Badenoch or Jenrick. The thought makes me feel quite ill!

Bevsec If a house doesn't sell it is over priced. I'd happily see house prices stay very static for a very long time. Too much of our wealth is in houses which create absolutely nothing apart from fueling the divide between those who have and those that don't.

I think what you’re doing on the housing market BevSec is assuming that your personal experience applies widely. This is what Rightmove says this month, but before the Budget:

‘Market activity remains strong, but the muted Autumn price increase comes as buyer choice and seller competition rise:
The number of sales being agreed is up by 29% year-on-year, a strong rebound from the weaker market a year ago
Underlying buyer demand remains strong, with the number of people contacting agents about homes for sale up by 17% compared with this time last year, despite some uncertainty caused by the Autumn Budget
The number of available homes for sale is 12% higher than a year ago – and the highest per estate agent since 2014, intensifying competition to find affordability-stretched buyers, some of whom may also have pre-Budget jitters’

We’ll have to wait a few weeks to see if the Budget has an impact.

Casdon

I think what you’re doing on the housing market BevSec is assuming that your personal experience applies widely. This is what Rightmove says this month, but before the Budget:

‘Market activity remains strong, but the muted Autumn price increase comes as buyer choice and seller competition rise:
The number of sales being agreed is up by 29% year-on-year, a strong rebound from the weaker market a year ago
Underlying buyer demand remains strong, with the number of people contacting agents about homes for sale up by 17% compared with this time last year, despite some uncertainty caused by the Autumn Budget
The number of available homes for sale is 12% higher than a year ago – and the highest per estate agent since 2014, intensifying competition to find affordability-stretched buyers, some of whom may also have pre-Budget jitters’

We’ll have to wait a few weeks to see if the Budget has an impact.

The estate agent of the friend with the bungalow said she has never known the housing market so depressed.

foxie48

Bevsec If a house doesn't sell it is over priced. I'd happily see house prices stay very static for a very long time. Too much of our wealth is in houses which create absolutely nothing apart from fueling the divide between those who have and those that don't.

The properties are not over priced, in fact the Canterbury house has reduced in price by £200,000. Still no interest.

foxie48

Bevsec If a house doesn't sell it is over priced. I'd happily see house prices stay very static for a very long time. Too much of our wealth is in houses which create absolutely nothing apart from fueling the divide between those who have and those that don't.

No, 8foxie48* that is no true. The problem at the moment is that there are more houses on the market than active buyers.

Our house has been on the market since the beginning of the year, we want to sell it and have reduced the price substantially twice, but, quite simply there is no one out there byuying, or very few.

First people were awaiting interest cuts, then they were awaiting the election, then they were awaiting interest rate cuts, theen they were awaiting the budget and now they are waiting to see how the budget pans out.

If there are 100 houses on the market and only 50 buyers, 50 houses will remain unsold, no matter how far prices fall. This is the situation at the moment.

The information on RightMove* is the picture for the whole of the UK BevSec. From what you say there is a slow market in the area you live in. According to RightMove the national picture doesn’t correspond with your local picture. Monica is right, there are more houses on the market than there have been for years, which means that even with high levels of sales, some houses will not sell - it’s a buyers market.

M0nica

foxie48

Bevsec If a house doesn't sell it is over priced. I'd happily see house prices stay very static for a very long time. Too much of our wealth is in houses which create absolutely nothing apart from fueling the divide between those who have and those that don't.

No, 8foxie48* that is no true. The problem at the moment is that there are more houses on the market than active buyers.

Our house has been on the market since the beginning of the year, we want to sell it and have reduced the price substantially twice, but, quite simply there is no one out there byuying, or very few.

First people were awaiting interest cuts, then they were awaiting the election, then they were awaiting interest rate cuts, theen they were awaiting the budget and now they are waiting to see how the budget pans out.

If there are 100 houses on the market and only 50 buyers, 50 houses will remain unsold, no matter how far prices fall. This is the situation at the moment.

My friend with the house in Canterbury is desperate to sell to cover her care home fees, it is detached with granny annexe and within walk of university, normally would sell easily.

Interest rates are still high and stamp duty on higher priced properties is significant, middle market properties seem to be moving but price has got to be right. New properties are selling off plans, anything that needs refurbishment sells at a discount, not much hope of increases until spring then maybe interest rates will be lower.

David49

Interest rates are still high and stamp duty on higher priced properties is significant, middle market properties seem to be moving but price has got to be right. New properties are selling off plans, anything that needs refurbishment sells at a discount, not much hope of increases until spring then maybe interest rates will be lower.

That is my point about stamp duty, its many thousands of pounds tax.

foxie48

Bevsec If a house doesn't sell it is over priced. I'd happily see house prices stay very static for a very long time. Too much of our wealth is in houses which create absolutely nothing apart from fueling the divide between those who have and those that don't.

Absolutely true! That's the underlining cause of many of the UK's financial woes. Too much wealth is invested in property rather than production.

Casdon

I don’t think anybody said there would be mitigations for the withdrawal of the WFP in the budget Rosie51. A lot of us said we hoped there would be, which is not the same thing. I’m disappointed about that aspect of the budget.
I am however happy to pay more taxes to improve public services, and it really grates on me when people who complain about paying more taxes now are the most vociferous complainants about the public services they use.

I believe I wrote that I hoped there might be some mitigations, so I'm disappointed about that too. On the positive side, there is not one single thing in the budget which will effect me directly/personally. As I'm in the poorest decile of the population, I was hoping that would be the case. If they get it right (and I'm still holding my breath), the NHS might begin to improve, which will improve my well-being.