Governments First Budget

Bugger. Caught the typo too late

forelock, not firelock. What a sarcasm failure

@ MOnica and David.

All I can say is "Blimey! Do be gentle with the firelock tugging. At our age we really don't want to lose any more hair" 😂

Duke of Westminster is a good example, he rich but a long way from the idle rich, he has a massively commercial property business. The large estates that have survived are run on very commercial lines, the ones I know have many diversified enterprises, and probably provide more jobs than they did before WW1

Until we are able to pay for our own housing and services we have to live with those that provide finance and property for us. It’s like car dealers, most of us hate them, but if you want a new car you have to deal with them. Maybe in the future the UK will somehow prosper so that the nation can provide housing, health and all the other services without borrowing. Until then we have to live with those that lend us money, demonize them if it makes you feel better but that changes nothing.

Yes, trusts have been set u and estates set up a limited companies, thus protecting them from death duties, but the beneficiaries of these trusts/ltd companies are still the family members. Look how wealthy the Duke of Westminster is!

I am not remotely jealous, nor would I change these things. I like the sense of continuity that comes from the long association between a given family and certain county or county town.

Most of great estates were broken up by “Death Duty” after WW1, those that remain are held in trusts or have given their mansions and art collections to the NT in lieu of taxation. The family living in more modest circumstances and earning a living from other occupations.
The tentacles of aristocracy do dominate high finance and politics so don’t underestimate their influence, while they manipulate the money we want to borrow that will continue.

The King and William are doing nothing different from every wealthy landowner. They are maximising the profit that can be extracted from their holdings.

But, part of the 'mystique of the monarchy that has been peddled for centuries is that a monarch has duty of care for the wellbeing of all their subjects. The monarch represented by their government in Parliament has set up caring institutions such as schools and hospitals. But is charging rent for the land they are on! Surely caring institutions of the State should, morally, be rent free?

“Prince George will be OK - Duchy of Cornwall- because his father's estate will be completely exempt from IHT. I think it's around 21 farms. Not fair really, but that's the rules.”

Well, those rules absolutely need changing! It’s a disgrace that the Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster profit from the public sector i.e. the taxpayer, and they’re exempt from the taxes that others have to pay.

The C4 Dispatches programme highlighted this brilliantly. The King and William could right these wrongs - if they chose to. Shame on them!

I'm in Cornwall for a couple of weeks, and it occurred to me that Prince George will be OK - Duchy of Cornwall- because his father's estate will be completely exempt from IHT. I think it's around 21 farms.
Not fair really, but that's the rules.

MaizieD

^Yes they run the world - because they have the money to lend us, to provide the services we want/need.^

You so prove my point about reverencing the rich, David.

They only have this excessive amount of money because they have extracted it from the less rich in the first place. Or have inherited wealth initially extracted from the less rich. And they only 'lend' it to any country if they see the prospect of their 'loan' making them richer by way of interest rates and dividends.

As far as providing goods and services is concerned, in the UK a great number of 'goods and services' were perfectly well provided by state owned and run companies until the tories, in the thrall of money worshipping, decided that they should be in private hands. Well, a lot of people have become extremely wealthy as a result of that, but look at the state of many of our former public services...

"The Great Money Trick - Robert Tressell (The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists - April 1914)

libcom.org/article/great-money-trick-robert-tressell

Te NFU advised them to vote remain I believe. But when we were in Yorkshire there were give us our country back placards in farmers fields everywhere which must have influenced many people. Just as there are always vote Conservative placards in their fields when it’s an election. So they do unfairly wield a wider influence imo. Anyway, wasn’t Brexit all about our fisherman as well? That didn’t go well did it? #theelephantinthe room

MaizieD

vegansrock

How many farmers voted for Brexit? The biggest drain on our finances for decades.

It was, apparently, about 50/50. The few farmers I know voted Remain and knew that Brexit was going to be a disaster for farmers.

For a start, many farmers depended on the Single Farm Payment to keep afloat. The Brexit substitute is nothing like as good.

Turkeys voting for Christmas for sure, they believed the rubbish Johnson et al were spreading, of the farmers I know most voted for Brexit. The CAP was good for farmers and food security, a massive own goal.

vegansrock

How many farmers voted for Brexit? The biggest drain on our finances for decades.

It was, apparently, about 50/50. The few farmers I know voted Remain and knew that Brexit was going to be a disaster for farmers.

For a start, many farmers depended on the Single Farm Payment to keep afloat. The Brexit substitute is nothing like as good.

MaizieD

^Yes they run the world - because they have the money to lend us, to provide the services we want/need.^

You so prove my point about reverencing the rich, David.

They only have this excessive amount of money because they have extracted it from the less rich in the first place. Or have inherited wealth initially extracted from the less rich. And they only 'lend' it to any country if they see the prospect of their 'loan' making them richer by way of interest rates and dividends.

As far as providing goods and services is concerned, in the UK a great number of 'goods and services' were perfectly well provided by state owned and run companies until the tories, in the thrall of money worshipping, decided that they should be in private hands. Well, a lot of people have become extremely wealthy as a result of that, but look at the state of many of our former public services...

Maisie, there are those that want to maximize the return they get regardless, most want to retain the value of their money, keeping up with inflation. Over the years you need probably 4% return to retain the value of your money, there are few investments that will achieve that. Your house is one of those because growth isn’t taxed.

How many farmers voted for Brexit? The biggest drain on our finances for decades.

Agreed, Maisie and Lizzie.

MaizieD 👏👏👏

Yes they run the world - because they have the money to lend us, to provide the services we want/need.

You so prove my point about reverencing the rich, David.

They only have this excessive amount of money because they have extracted it from the less rich in the first place. Or have inherited wealth initially extracted from the less rich. And they only 'lend' it to any country if they see the prospect of their 'loan' making them richer by way of interest rates and dividends.

As far as providing goods and services is concerned, in the UK a great number of 'goods and services' were perfectly well provided by state owned and run companies until the tories, in the thrall of money worshipping, decided that they should be in private hands. Well, a lot of people have become extremely wealthy as a result of that, but look at the state of many of our former public services...

Maybe it’s time to start counting the food miles we use to bring food that we can rear or grow ourselves and working out how to reduce those
OR counting them against our green credentials and realising how much our net zero is being achieved by contributing to pollution in other countries.

LizzieDrip

David how would the ‘angry farmers’ and their supporters suggest the government raises the money needed to fund public services … for all?

I don't know but attacking food production won't help anyone

I am fortunate to have a farm shop a few minutes away by car (30 minute walk)
I buy the majority of my fruit, veg, and meat products from them.

You can see the pigs and cows in the adjacent fields.

There are too many people who grow up thinking that food only comes ready washed and wrapped from supermarkets.

We need to up production, cut down on food transport mileage and maybe not expect asparagus all year round!

I support UK Farmers

I also want the government to force the likes of Amazon and Google to cough up their fair share.

GrannyGravy13

LizzieDrip

David how would the ‘angry farmers’ and their supporters suggest the government raises the money needed to fund public services … for all?

A good place to start would be with the multinational corporations who do not pay tax here in the UK despite making millions of £s of profit off of UK citizens.
Amazon, Google etc.

👏👏👏

Certainly not from farmers who are just about keeping their heads above water, working for less than a minimum wage and wondering how they'll fund their retirement. The people who work hard to put food on our tables.

The government seems to have gone for the easy options - are they frightened to tackle these big corporations?

LizzieDrip

David how would the ‘angry farmers’ and their supporters suggest the government raises the money needed to fund public services … for all?

A good place to start would be with the multinational corporations who do not pay tax here in the UK despite making millions of £s of profit off of UK citizens.
Amazon, Google etc.

David how would the ‘angry farmers’ and their supporters suggest the government raises the money needed to fund public services … for all?

MaizieD

Allira

TerriBull

GrannyGravy13

Bill Gates and Larry Fink visit Starmer and Reeves days ago.

Gates and Finks are massive buyers of agricultural land…

I've signed a petition in support of the farmers. When we have individuals such as Bill Gates and Larry Fink, Black Rock, the largest multinational investment management corporation in the world with more than $10 trillion in assets, buying up vast swathes of agricultural land we need to have some concern. Black Rock were the instigators of the "ESG", that most companies have adopted, why we need a feckin' dubious hedge fund to be arbiter of people' s morals and ultimately have a far reach into what we consume via their buying out the independent farmers we need questions regarding the motives of those who are trying to shape the world and for what end.

I'm afraid that these are the people who run the world.
Politicians just tinker and do what they can.

I'm afraid that they 'run the world' because we let them. For some reason extreme wealth is revered, despite the fact that it has been acquired at the expense of the rest of the population. .

Any party genuinely proposing to clip their wings is feared and ignored. The idea that a more even distribution of resources would be a good thing seems to provoke more horror than agreement.

I'm afraid that they 'run the world' because we let them. For some reason extreme wealth is revered, despite the fact that it has been acquired at the expense of the rest of the population.

The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists is as relevant today as it was when it was authored.