Governments First Budget

How many farmers voted for Brexit? The biggest drain on our finances for decades.

MaizieD

^Yes they run the world - because they have the money to lend us, to provide the services we want/need.^

You so prove my point about reverencing the rich, David.

They only have this excessive amount of money because they have extracted it from the less rich in the first place. Or have inherited wealth initially extracted from the less rich. And they only 'lend' it to any country if they see the prospect of their 'loan' making them richer by way of interest rates and dividends.

As far as providing goods and services is concerned, in the UK a great number of 'goods and services' were perfectly well provided by state owned and run companies until the tories, in the thrall of money worshipping, decided that they should be in private hands. Well, a lot of people have become extremely wealthy as a result of that, but look at the state of many of our former public services...

Maisie, there are those that want to maximize the return they get regardless, most want to retain the value of their money, keeping up with inflation. Over the years you need probably 4% return to retain the value of your money, there are few investments that will achieve that. Your house is one of those because growth isn’t taxed.

vegansrock

How many farmers voted for Brexit? The biggest drain on our finances for decades.

It was, apparently, about 50/50. The few farmers I know voted Remain and knew that Brexit was going to be a disaster for farmers.

For a start, many farmers depended on the Single Farm Payment to keep afloat. The Brexit substitute is nothing like as good.

MaizieD

vegansrock

How many farmers voted for Brexit? The biggest drain on our finances for decades.

It was, apparently, about 50/50. The few farmers I know voted Remain and knew that Brexit was going to be a disaster for farmers.

For a start, many farmers depended on the Single Farm Payment to keep afloat. The Brexit substitute is nothing like as good.

Turkeys voting for Christmas for sure, they believed the rubbish Johnson et al were spreading, of the farmers I know most voted for Brexit. The CAP was good for farmers and food security, a massive own goal.

Te NFU advised them to vote remain I believe. But when we were in Yorkshire there were give us our country back placards in farmers fields everywhere which must have influenced many people. Just as there are always vote Conservative placards in their fields when it’s an election. So they do unfairly wield a wider influence imo. Anyway, wasn’t Brexit all about our fisherman as well? That didn’t go well did it? #theelephantinthe room

MaizieD

^Yes they run the world - because they have the money to lend us, to provide the services we want/need.^

You so prove my point about reverencing the rich, David.

They only have this excessive amount of money because they have extracted it from the less rich in the first place. Or have inherited wealth initially extracted from the less rich. And they only 'lend' it to any country if they see the prospect of their 'loan' making them richer by way of interest rates and dividends.

As far as providing goods and services is concerned, in the UK a great number of 'goods and services' were perfectly well provided by state owned and run companies until the tories, in the thrall of money worshipping, decided that they should be in private hands. Well, a lot of people have become extremely wealthy as a result of that, but look at the state of many of our former public services...

"The Great Money Trick - Robert Tressell (The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists - April 1914)

libcom.org/article/great-money-trick-robert-tressell

I'm in Cornwall for a couple of weeks, and it occurred to me that Prince George will be OK - Duchy of Cornwall- because his father's estate will be completely exempt from IHT. I think it's around 21 farms.
Not fair really, but that's the rules.

“Prince George will be OK - Duchy of Cornwall- because his father's estate will be completely exempt from IHT. I think it's around 21 farms. Not fair really, but that's the rules.”

Well, those rules absolutely need changing! It’s a disgrace that the Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster profit from the public sector i.e. the taxpayer, and they’re exempt from the taxes that others have to pay.

The C4 Dispatches programme highlighted this brilliantly. The King and William could right these wrongs - if they chose to. Shame on them!

The King and William are doing nothing different from every wealthy landowner. They are maximising the profit that can be extracted from their holdings.

But, part of the 'mystique of the monarchy that has been peddled for centuries is that a monarch has duty of care for the wellbeing of all their subjects. The monarch represented by their government in Parliament has set up caring institutions such as schools and hospitals. But is charging rent for the land they are on! Surely caring institutions of the State should, morally, be rent free?

Most of great estates were broken up by “Death Duty” after WW1, those that remain are held in trusts or have given their mansions and art collections to the NT in lieu of taxation. The family living in more modest circumstances and earning a living from other occupations.
The tentacles of aristocracy do dominate high finance and politics so don’t underestimate their influence, while they manipulate the money we want to borrow that will continue.

Yes, trusts have been set u and estates set up a limited companies, thus protecting them from death duties, but the beneficiaries of these trusts/ltd companies are still the family members. Look how wealthy the Duke of Westminster is!

I am not remotely jealous, nor would I change these things. I like the sense of continuity that comes from the long association between a given family and certain county or county town.

Duke of Westminster is a good example, he rich but a long way from the idle rich, he has a massively commercial property business. The large estates that have survived are run on very commercial lines, the ones I know have many diversified enterprises, and probably provide more jobs than they did before WW1

Until we are able to pay for our own housing and services we have to live with those that provide finance and property for us. It’s like car dealers, most of us hate them, but if you want a new car you have to deal with them. Maybe in the future the UK will somehow prosper so that the nation can provide housing, health and all the other services without borrowing. Until then we have to live with those that lend us money, demonize them if it makes you feel better but that changes nothing.

@ MOnica and David.

All I can say is "Blimey! Do be gentle with the firelock tugging. At our age we really don't want to lose any more hair" 😂

Bugger. Caught the typo too late

forelock, not firelock. What a sarcasm failure

Totally agree MaizieD.

I don’t quite get the idea that the upper classes have a right to so many privileges whilst the underclass or the vast majority of the population have fewer by the day in terms of inheritance laws at least. I include the Royal Family in the first category obviously.

I can tug my forelock if I benefit from it, successful people do.
I don’t envy them, I don’t like or dislike them, there are good and bad.

In business I have had to deal with cleaners on minimum wage, right up to estate owners worth £100m plus, for me the only requirement is are they honest, because if I suspect they aren’t I walk away. I could never do a deal with Trump or Johnson or many others because I have decided they are crooks and I would never sleep at night.

I am not forelock tugging. I am just saying I am not bothered by people being rich. I also have a strong sense of history.

You are just letting your prejudices get in the way of your judgements.

I'm going to get my forelock trimmed today.
There may not be enough left to tug. 👩

vegansrock

How many farmers voted for Brexit? The biggest drain on our finances for decades.

Well we were farming at the time and most definitely did not vote for Brexit - not did anyone I know

escaped

I'm in Cornwall for a couple of weeks, and it occurred to me that Prince George will be OK - Duchy of Cornwall- because his father's estate will be completely exempt from IHT. I think it's around 21 farms.
Not fair really, but that's the rules.

It is much more than that they own huge swathes of the west country plus other parts of the U.K..

I think prejudices do hold people back, and the lack of personal responsibility, wanting to always blame someone else for your problems.

It isn’t a question of jealousy - it is a question of fairness and equality.

That old chestnut is constantly wheeled out whenever anyone brings the issue up.

It is rubbish.

As an aside all the brexiter voting farmers must have been in our part of the world. Everywhere you went in the countryside there were huge Brexit posters.

Whitewavemark2

It isn’t a question of jealousy - it is a question of fairness and equality.

That old chestnut is constantly wheeled out whenever anyone brings the issue up.

It is rubbish.

As an aside all the brexiter voting farmers must have been in our part of the world. Everywhere you went in the countryside there were huge Brexit posters.

As an aside all the brexiter voting farmers must have been in our part of the world. Everywhere you went in the countryside there were huge Brexit posters.

I thought they were all in Wales!!

The idea, I think, was that they would get rid of all the bureaucracy involved with the EU. Be careful what you wish for.

David why should the monarchy be exempt from IHT & CGT?