Governments First Budget

Rosie51

He calls being under 70 youngish? Do most people in their 60s describe themselves as young?

later he says I'm seen some hysterical takes on this: "£20k could make the difference between a £2m farm being profitable or loss making". [£20k over ten years = IHT on £2m]

Nope. If it's making less than £20k profit/year, it ain't worth £2m.

What does he think the farmer should live on? Most or even all profit to go to paying IHT leaves exactly what for the farmer?

Sorry, I don't recognise your figures. What's he's saying is that a farm worth more than £2 million for IHT will make more than £20k a year profit. In any case, if you read what he's written, a £2 million farm wouldn't have £20k IHT levied on it.

I posted the link because Dan Neidle understands far more about tax than I do (and I suspect most people).

PS. Yes, I do think under 70 is still youngish. On average, a 70 year old can expect to live another 15 years in the UK, which is plenty of time to get inheritance and taxes sorted out.

Rosie51 Dan Neidle ex Clifford Chance partner on mega bucks before he took early retirement. Rachael Reeves could find rich pickings in this group?

He calls being under 70 youngish? Do most people in their 60s describe themselves as young?

later he says I'm seen some hysterical takes on this: "£20k could make the difference between a £2m farm being profitable or loss making". [£20k over ten years = IHT on £2m]

Nope. If it's making less than £20k profit/year, it ain't worth £2m.

What does he think the farmer should live on? Most or even all profit to go to paying IHT leaves exactly what for the farmer?

David49

It’s carbon neutral agenda that’s driving this food import drive, but it’s not helping emissions, it causes exactly the same emissions to produce food wherever it’s produced on the globe add to that the transport emissions. This is especially true of out of season food where it is airfreighted to the UK.

Equally true of the drive to get solar panels. They, in themselves do help with being carbon neutral, but the production using mostly fossil fuels means we increase the environmental problem in China, whilst smugly announcing our carbon neutral achievements, just as if China isn’t part of the same world.

Interesting thread by Dan Neidle about IHT on small farms:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1851956384167776598.html

It’s carbon neutral agenda that’s driving this food import drive, but it’s not helping emissions, it causes exactly the same emissions to produce food wherever it’s produced on the globe add to that the transport emissions. This is especially true of out of season food where it is airfreighted to the UK.

Farmers will follow the government policy the environmental payments now make it not worthwhile growing many marginal crop. So we are paying twice for all the imports and doing nothing to reduce global emissions, the same applies to all other imports everything China sends us causes more emissions than producing in the UK.

While that continues global emissions will continue to rise.

Mollygo

Much easier to add miles and import from abroad than to address the flooding issue here.

Floods in so many countries ☹

If we don't look after our farmers, we are all doomed.

Much easier to add miles and import from abroad than to address the flooding issue here.

That says it all, really.

Very sad.

MayBee70

Passiflora

I should just like to say it brought tears to my eyes to hear a woman lay out such complexity so clearly and strongly. There was to me a feeling of great care and commitment to doing the best she could. And her intelligence shone through. I hadn't connected at all with her before but am always so glad when a woman steps up like this.

Yes. I agree.

👏👏👏

Surely a key factor in "Eating/buying UK food" is

imports from abroad on a a massive scale because of cheap labour and consumer eating habits, how many now eat just whats seasonal in the UK?

and

shortage of seasonal labour to pick and harvest home grown products, farmers cant get the labour

and climate change/waterlogging

The health of our productive agricultural land depends on the health of the wilder areas.^

I think farmers who own small family farms are well aware of that.

Passiflora

I should just like to say it brought tears to my eyes to hear a woman lay out such complexity so clearly and strongly. There was to me a feeling of great care and commitment to doing the best she could. And her intelligence shone through. I hadn't connected at all with her before but am always so glad when a woman steps up like this.

Yes. I agree.

I should just like to say it brought tears to my eyes to hear a woman lay out such complexity so clearly and strongly. There was to me a feeling of great care and commitment to doing the best she could. And her intelligence shone through. I hadn't connected at all with her before but am always so glad when a woman steps up like this.

David49

Allira

Well, yes.
I thought we were discussing productive farms.

However, your post brings up an interesting question.
If large landowners turn over their land to environmental schemes and managed rewilding, will they be subject to these new IHT rules?
If it was previously agricultural land then it was not at the time.

However, the more land that is taken out of food production for environmental or building purposes the more precarious our food security in this country.

Yes environmental schemes qualify for new rules.
It’s crazy, bad weather is reducing yield of crops that are planted as well, morale amongst farmers was bad enough before.

The health of our productive agricultural land depends on the health of the wilder areas.

Over the last few decades we have seen the number of animals, birds, insects and plants drop drastically. Many of these insects pollinate crops, help keep crop harming insects at bay, while trees and greenery absorb carbon dioxide and contribute to alleviating the damage of global warming.

Extensive industrial farming has depleted the land, making it necessary to use greater quantities of fertilisers and producing crops with lower trace elements and mineral in them than crops from richer less depleted soils.

These environmental schemes, many on poorer and marginal lands are necessary to keep farming productive .

It’s crazy, bad weather is reducing yield of crops that are planted as well, morale amongst farmers was bad enough before.

Flooding, increases in pests because of the weather, rising costs, now these latest blows may be just too much for many farming families.

www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2024-10-30/chancellors-budget-will-be-nail-in-the-coffin-for-agriculture-warn-farmers

Allira

Well, yes.
I thought we were discussing productive farms.

However, your post brings up an interesting question.
If large landowners turn over their land to environmental schemes and managed rewilding, will they be subject to these new IHT rules?
If it was previously agricultural land then it was not at the time.

However, the more land that is taken out of food production for environmental or building purposes the more precarious our food security in this country.

Yes environmental schemes qualify for new rules.
It’s crazy, bad weather is reducing yield of crops that are planted as well, morale amongst farmers was bad enough before.

Oh dear. Sad so many suffer with the disease 'the politics of envy'! I have never suffered with it myself. But then again I have always been happy yo work to provide for myself and then my family. I have never gone round with my hand out and expect other people to put their money into it!!!

Well, yes.
I thought we were discussing productive farms.

However, your post brings up an interesting question.
If large landowners turn over their land to environmental schemes and managed rewilding, will they be subject to these new IHT rules?
If it was previously agricultural land then it was not at the time.

However, the more land that is taken out of food production for environmental or building purposes the more precarious our food security in this country.

Spain produces 32% of UKs fruit and vegetables.

This is from 40,000+ hectares of greenhouses in and around Almeria.

Almeria has just been wiped out by flooding.

Food prices will increase, scarcity of some products will rise.

U.K. needs to encourage farmers and aim for higher production, it shouldn’t been taxing future generations of them out of business.

Allira

^Then, of course, the farms on the vast acreages owned by 'the aristocracy' and big 'investors', such as Dyson, will be tenanted, so those farmers have little to worry about.^

Which is shown in my post.

54% of farms in the UK were owner-occupied in 2021 but of course that percentage may be lower now as some farmers have given up in despair.

Understanding the difference between family, owner-occupied farms and large landowners is essential here.

Rudeness is not necessary.

Many of the estates aren’t tenanted some are contract farmed, some in hand quite a lot including Dyson are now in environmental schemes. The problem is it’s just not worth growing crops if you have to pay agents managers and all the workers

In 2021, agriculture contributed around 0.5% to the United Kingdom’s economy. Agriculture provides half of the food we eat, employs almost half a million people and is a key part of the food and drink sector.

We produce about 60% of our food in the UK, not 50%

The UK's self-sufficiency has been declining since 1984, when it reached a post-war high of 78%. The National Farmers Union (NFU) has called for the UK to be more self-sufficient and less reliant on imported food. The NFU argues that climate change and the war in Ukraine have made global food imports vulnerable

deaf ears? 🤔

I have heard it said, that for every person employed on a Uk farm, there are 7 more people employed in all the industries it supports.
Machinery, and numerous other occupations. Vets, admin, advisors etc etc.

Mollygo

Probably means you didn’t agree.

Probably means they are not farmers or have none in the family although I believe one or two posters may be landowners.

Here are some more facts and figures from the Uk gov. 2021

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6331b071e90e0711d5d595df/AUK_Evidence_Pack_2021_Sept22.pdf

Then, of course, the farms on the vast acreages owned by 'the aristocracy' and big 'investors', such as Dyson, will be tenanted, so those farmers have little to worry about.

Which is shown in my post.

54% of farms in the UK were owner-occupied in 2021 but of course that percentage may be lower now as some farmers have given up in despair.

Understanding the difference between family, owner-occupied farms and large landowners is essential here.

Rudeness is not necessary.