Conservative Party Leader announcement...

Valid to whom? And who decides?

The issue is that if something is illegal in the UK, it applies to everybody. The idea of 'validity' is irrelevant.

As I wrote before, I am vehemently against the abortion ban being enforced in some US states. I disagree 100% with fundamentalist Christians on that issue. Where should Christians or Americans be ranked on the hypothetical validity scale? Should they all be condemned because I (and many others) support a woman's right to choose?

I was completely disinterested in the hew leader, didn't know anything about her. Listening to her interviewed, I like her attitude, she is to the point and I think has integrity, something in short supply with the government we have and the last one.
Shes a few years yet to prove herself so let's see.

Wyllow3

Badenoch doesn't define what "our' shared values are in the UK, but she isn't in favour of multiculturalism - which is our current situation.

Her famous quote (Tory conference)

"Not all cultures equally valid", says Kemi Badenoch" (quoted in several papers).

It sets up an "us and them" situation.

She says its in relationship to immigration - but dodges the issues within out own culture where racism and indeed hate or violence do exist. Demanding "they" all be like "us"doesnt actually solve anything, it inflames.

As exhibited in the riots,

as you point out, Easybee and I therefore agree with you about Butler being very wrong to post the tweet.

I agree with her that not all cultures are equally valid!

GG13 has recognised that we have, and have to deal with, home grown offences against women/children: its a matter of not tarring all with the same brush as regards other cultures.

growstuff

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD when the extremes of any culture are perpetuated here in the U.K. surely they shouldn’t be tolerated?

Two posters have already addressed that.

For all the good it does (sigh).

Apologies if I have missed that part of the thread, I often just skim through, so it’s not unusual for me to miss something.

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD when the extremes of any culture are perpetuated here in the U.K. surely they shouldn’t be tolerated?

Two posters have already addressed that.

For all the good it does (sigh).

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD when the extremes of any culture are perpetuated here in the U.K. surely they shouldn’t be tolerated?

No, of course they shouldn't be tolerated, but who says they are? FGM and abuse of women is illegal in the UK and girls/women have (in theory at least) the same educational opportunities as men. The above is enshrined in UK law, so of course anybody living here must respect the law. That doesn't mean that other cultures aren't welcome or not equal, so long as they don't break UK laws and most followers of other cultures realise that.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD when the extremes of any culture are perpetuated here in the U.K. surely they shouldn’t be tolerated?

Two posters have already addressed that.

Btw, on the matter of the shadow Cabinet was pleased to see the relatively moderate/centrist Mel Stride have a place.

"Who is Mel Stride? Tory leadership candidate slams Elon Musk's 'absurd' comments about UK riots

The MP for Central Devon also says Reform UK leader Nigel Farage ‘helped fuel conspiracy theories’ that led to the riots".

Wyllow3

You are right GG13 of course we all here "supporting women and children wherever they come from, whoever oppresses, violates or abuses them."

It's why within "our". culture, we have domestic abuse centres and helplines and still trying to get a better police response.

Totally agree, we are getting better, but not good enough.

Some police are stuck in the 60’s-80’s mindset that she must have asked for it 🤬🤬🤬

MaizieD when the extremes of any culture are perpetuated here in the U.K. surely they shouldn’t be tolerated?

You are right GG13 of course we all here "supporting women and children wherever they come from, whoever oppresses, violates or abuses them."

It's why within "our". culture, we have domestic abuse centres and helplines and still trying to get a better police response.

GrannyGravy13

It cannot be denied that women in Afghanistan are being silenced.

The images coming out of Iran of women being beaten and disappearing are multiplying, the recent young female student who undressed down to her underwear after being harassed by the morality police, was arrested and nothing has been heard of her since.

FGM is cruel along with damaging to females health let alone what it does to a young girls mental health.

I am against all abuses of women, whoever the perpetrators are.

I am against the regimes in Africa that think it’s ok if children are sent to work in hazardous environments mining minerals just so we can be carbon neutral and have the latest electric car, phone or tech gadget.

I make no apologies for supporting women and children wherever they come from, whoever oppresses, violates or abuses them.

That's fine, but the topic here is specific to the UK, isn't it?

It cannot be denied that women in Afghanistan are being silenced.

The images coming out of Iran of women being beaten and disappearing are multiplying, the recent young female student who undressed down to her underwear after being harassed by the morality police, was arrested and nothing has been heard of her since.

FGM is cruel along with damaging to females health let alone what it does to a young girls mental health.

I am against all abuses of women, whoever the perpetrators are.

I am against the regimes in Africa that think it’s ok if children are sent to work in hazardous environments mining minerals just so we can be carbon neutral and have the latest electric car, phone or tech gadget.

I make no apologies for supporting women and children wherever they come from, whoever oppresses, violates or abuses them.

Covered some of the same ground Growstuff

GrannyGravy13

^not all cultures are equally valid^

Kemi Badenoch has a valid point how can the culture of FGM, of not education girls, which has turned into women’s voices being illegal in public, women beaten and disappearing due to not wearing their hijab correctly. (I also do not think male circumcision for religious beliefs is ok. that’s a whole different conversation)

How can any of the above be called equal societies ?

Well, we've outed the elephant in the room here - it's not exclusively, but it is mainly, related to our Muslim citizens.

When Badenoch quotes examples, it is of extremes like FGM, which is most certainly not tolerated by most Muslims and quite properly illegal.

Ditto "women beaten and disappearing due to not wearing their hijab correctly" is also quite extreme and smearing all with the same meme.

Two points:
Firstly, some of the worst stories of hatred/control/violence to women come from out very own home grown white men

Secondly: Families do come to integrate as in working hard at school, both boys and girls working hard to get into the professions, and where there is the practices you allude to, a strong movement within the muslim community to end them such as these

www.mwnuk.co.uk/mwn-helpline

(sponsored by a conservative MP among many)

Work with a culture, don't demonise it

GrannyGravy13

^not all cultures are equally valid^

Kemi Badenoch has a valid point how can the culture of FGM, of not education girls, which has turned into women’s voices being illegal in public, women beaten and disappearing due to not wearing their hijab correctly. (I also do not think male circumcision for religious beliefs is ok. that’s a whole different conversation)

How can any of the above be called equal societies ?

I don't think many people would disagree about FGM, the education of girls or treatment of women generally. Nevertheless, what she fails to mention is that many of the people who have come to the UK have fled from these cultures. When Badenoch was on the London assembly, she showed her feelings towards Muslims. Most Muslims in the UK are in favour of education for girls and don't agree with women covering their whole bodies. They have different religious beliefs, which IMO should be respected like other religions. As an atheist, I don't believe in any god, but respect people's rights to believe in whatever they like. How those religions are interpreted by some fanatics is another matter. For example, I disagree completely with the anti-abortion stance of some fundamental Christians.

Badenoch cherry picks a few examples, but cannot back up her arguments.

eazybee

Starmer has removed the whip from certain Labour members, for not voting how he told them to, for behaving disgracefully by punching a member of the public and by sending an offensive tweet ( another female Labour MP,do not know the name.) People who took part in the Southport riots were imprisoned for their behaviour, rightly so, and some were imprisoned for the offensive /inflammatory content of their comments on social media, again rightly so.
The 'tweet' Butler shared was offensive, and revealed a glimpse of an unpleasant subculture towards black people who integrate in the country where they choose to settle.
Starmer should take action against an MP who should remain impartial against these comments.

It is also a fact that many black people think Badenoch has betrayed them. Originally, she claimed she was going to champion the cause of people with African heritage in the UK, then she turned on them, probably because she realised, as a Conservative, she wouldn't win their votes. She blamed them if they experienced discrimination. Although she originally claimed that she had experienced discrimination, she then denied that racism exists in the UK. All of this is documented.

not all cultures are equally valid

Kemi Badenoch has a valid point how can the culture of FGM, of not education girls, which has turned into women’s voices being illegal in public, women beaten and disappearing due to not wearing their hijab correctly. (I also do not think male circumcision for religious beliefs is ok. that’s a whole different conversation)

How can any of the above be called equal societies ?

Badenoch doesn't define what "our' shared values are in the UK, but she isn't in favour of multiculturalism - which is our current situation.

Her famous quote (Tory conference)

"Not all cultures equally valid", says Kemi Badenoch" (quoted in several papers).

It sets up an "us and them" situation.

She says its in relationship to immigration - but dodges the issues within out own culture where racism and indeed hate or violence do exist. Demanding "they" all be like "us"doesnt actually solve anything, it inflames.

As exhibited in the riots,

as you point out, Easybee and I therefore agree with you about Butler being very wrong to post the tweet.

the tweet was offensive and revealed a glimpse of an unpleasant sub culture towards black people who integrate in the country where they choose to settle

We can’t dismiss the legacy of racism from Empire days. Or slavery, with its continuing influence on today’s society. Many British people who are 4th and 5th generation born, not choosing to settle here, also experience racism

Starmer has removed the whip from certain Labour members, for not voting how he told them to, for behaving disgracefully by punching a member of the public and by sending an offensive tweet ( another female Labour MP,do not know the name.) People who took part in the Southport riots were imprisoned for their behaviour, rightly so, and some were imprisoned for the offensive /inflammatory content of their comments on social media, again rightly so.
The 'tweet' Butler shared was offensive, and revealed a glimpse of an unpleasant subculture towards black people who integrate in the country where they choose to settle.
Starmer should take action against an MP who should remain impartial against these comments.

And I was right about the majority being Oxbridge and a role for Gareth Bacon.

growstuff

Full shadow cabinet

I don't think the government has too much to worry about with that lot.

I think you’re right. But then, the previous Government didn’t worry much about the opposition either.

Casdon

Full shadow cabinet.
news.sky.com/story/kemi-badenoch-latest-shadow-cabinet-politics-live-12593360

I don't think the government has too much to worry about with that lot.